Dan Altman Owes Me Money - Anybody Know Him?

Discussion in 'Sales Feedback' started by JaxxShirts, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    I just had a deal go bad with Dan Altman. I don't know his username because he emailed me, but told me he had good references on here. He ordered some jerseys from me, and then when I have them half done, he tells me they decided to go with somebody else, and are not paying for the jerseys, or the design fee that went with the logo design.

    I have the email conversation from beginning to end, but I'm not sure how to post it on here. I tried to attach it as a Word doc, but it was too big. How do I post the email conversation?

    He promises to paypal me the deposit several times, but never does, yet continues asking me to get the order going. I decide to go ahead and order the shirts on his promise to paypal me, which now I realize was a bad decision. Now his complaint is that I was taking too long, and that he placed the order 3-4 weeks ago. How can that be considering he's never sent the downpayment? :confused: I trusted him and got burned.

    The only information I have from him is that his name is Dan Altman, and he wanted the sponsor on their jerseys to be the Dutch Kettle, Galveston TX. So I'm assuming he lives in or near Galveston. Does anybody know anything about him or can give me any help?

    Thanks,
    Rusty
     
  2. Misfits

    Misfits Just passing time on SBF.

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    Never heard of his name but here is a # for the Dutch Kettle
    3600 Seawall Blvd
    Galveston TX 77550
    409-765-6761

    I will be on the look out for teams with the Dutch Kettle as a sponsor at BLD.
    Good Luck, hope this helps.
     
  3. Warlock78

    Warlock78 Addicted to Softballfans

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    you don't get a deposit up front before you start spending money on an order?
    Use the info misfit supplied and call the mgr of Dutch Kettle.

    Also, could try doing a google on his email address. Every once in a while, some info will pop up. But best course of action is to call the sponsor.
     
  4. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    I usually trust the people I work with, but I guess I shouldn't. He asked me to order the shirts and said he would send the money on Monday when his funds were transfered over. I won't be doing that anymore, thanks to him.

    His email is: dan_altman1@yahoo.com
    Google didnt' come up with anything.
     
  5. UHCoog1

    UHCoog1 Addicted to Softballfans

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    Dude, are you serious with this? I didnt pay you because you kept saying the shirts were coming and you were waiting and they were on backorder and yada yada yada, its your own fault you ordered the shirts and printed on some of them, I never paid you your required deposit. You took FOREVER to get the ball rolling on my order so I went with another vendor.

    Dont go and run your mouth if your not going to tell the entire story.

    You told me half of the total amount is required up front and I never gave you that, did that not tell you I didnt want the shirts?

    You had poor contact with me throughout the process and when it became evident you were taking forever I went another direction, I dont know how werent able to notice it by me not emailing you anymore. I never asked you to order the shirts without paying, that was your decision.

    Moderators, please remove my name from his post, this could be considered slander. I owe this gentleman nothing.
     
    #5 UHCoog1, Sep 9, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2007
  6. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    Here's the entire email conversation (next 2 posts) from beginning to end. As you see from his first post on Aug 22, he promises to send the payment and said "we definitely want to get this order moving". Clearly that indicates he wants me to order the shirts. I decide to order them to save him a couple days in shipping. He keeps saying I "took forever", yet, we never even got the details worked out until Wed, Aug 22, the date I ordered the shirts with his promise of payment. He emails me on Sunday asking if the shirts had come in yet, as if they would actually have arrived on Friday with the order being placed Wednesday afternoon? Of course not. The shirts were temporarily out of stock, and then arrived on Tues, Sep 4, after Labor Day. I updated him on the "out of stock" status on Aug 26, and told him they were shipped out on Aug 28th. And I told him on Tues, Sep 4, that I would be printing the shirts and shipping them out on the 8th. So I communicated with him the entire process as you can see from the emails. He's lying to say there was "poor contact". It never took me more than 8 hours to respond to any of his emails, as you can see from the email log. There was nothing slow on my part. I had no control over the "out of stock" status of the order and told him about it. And I began printing them withing 3 days of their arrival to my shop which is normal timing. He never once told me a date that he needed them by, nor did he communicate any sense of disapproval at the speed of the process. I never even knew that he was getting frustrated with the timing or that he was considering backing out.

    And the worst part is that he KNEW I was going to print the shirts, yet decided to go with another vendor without even telling me. All it would have taken was an email at any time during the process telling me that they were backing out.
     
    #6 JaxxShirts, Sep 9, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2007
  7. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    Email Log

    ________________________________________
    No Glove No Love
    46 messages
    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Fri, Aug 10, 2007 at 5:09 PM
    To: rusty@jaxxshirts.com
    I messaged you on softballfans and figured I would email you to make it easier. I need a price on 11 shirts, 1M, 6L, 4XL. Team name/logo on front, number and sponsor on back. Would like to go with dye sub on a wick type shirt. Please let me know if you need more information as I need a total cost to give me sponsor. THanks


    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com> Fri, Aug 10, 2007 at 11:02 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Dan,
    here is my pricelist for DyeSub jerseys. These prices do not include doing the artwork for the logo. The price for a # and sponsor on back will be equal to the "Name and #" in the pricelist column.
    http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x171/JaxxShirts/Price-List.gif

    Let me know if you have any other questions.
    Thanks,
    Rusty
    Jaxx Custom Shirts


    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Sat, Aug 11, 2007 at 12:37 AM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    How much is the artwork for the logo? We are using a very basic premise, we want something involving our name and the brewers glove and those old school brewer colors.

    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com> Sat, Aug 11, 2007 at 11:06 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    For a logo involving text and the old Brewers glove, it would be $25. If you decided you wanted more complex artwork, it may be a little more. Is this the glove you are thinking of?

    Rusty


    [Quoted text hidden]





    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 4:19 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Okay cool. We want the shirts to be that blue color with the name in gold and white and number on back in gold and white.
    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com> Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 1:28 AM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Hey Dan,
    DyeSub must be done on a very light colored shirts. The majority of DyeSub uses white shirts because they produce the best prints. They have white shirts with royal sides, like this one.

    The only way you can get a blue DyeSub'd shirt is to get the full custom dye which run about $50-$60 per shirt. I don't have the capabilities to do this, but if this is what you want I can give you some names of companies that do.

    Let me know,
    Rusty


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    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 2:30 AM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Lets do it on white then. What are we talking about cost wise on 11 shirts with gold and blue as the colors.
    [Quoted text hidden]


    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com> Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 10:27 AM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    For the white shirt with royal sides like shown, with a logo on front and # and sponsor on back, they would be $24 each. For a solid white shirt of the same style, they would be $23 each. And there would be a one-time $25 art charge.

    These shirts run about 1/2 size small, so keep that in mind for sizing.

    Thanks,
    Rusty


    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 11:44 AM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Okay, sounds good. Can you show me what your thinking the logo will look like? How long till we can get them? How much do we need to pay up front?
    [Quoted text hidden]


    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com> Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 12:09 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    We can do whatever you want with the logo. Maybe NO GLOVE above the glove logo and NO LOVE below it. It takes 3-5 days to get the shirts once I place the order. Then it takes 3-4 days for printing. Then I can ship them to you.

    For payment, I accept check by mail or PayPal. I prefer a check so that PayPal doesn't take their fees out of it. I would need the art charge and 1/2 of the printing fees up front. But I can go ahead and order the shirts once you get me the sizes. So if they are $24 each and you want 11, I'd need $25 + half of 11 x $24 = $157 now. And then the final payment would be the remainder + shipping.
    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 5:56 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Okay, we want the lettering to be gold with blue insert. Whatever you think will look the best for the logo is good, i like your idea.

    How is the fit on the shirts?
    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com> Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 10:36 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Here's a picture of the Colorado Timberline white/royal Toluca. They run about 1/2 size small. So if you like them roomy, order up a size.

    I'll draw up the logo and send it to you.

    Rusty


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    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com> Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 3:46 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Dan,
    here's a couple variations, with an up close and shirt view of each one. The letter color is the difference. Keep in mind the blue on the logo will match the royal blue on the shirt, even though it doesn't really match in the picture very well. Let me know what you think, or if you want to try something different.

    Rusty


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    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Mon, Aug 20, 2007 at 6:06 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com>
    Okay, we want to go with the version with the blue outlined in gold (lettering).

    Couple more questions sir..

    Are the numbers two color to match the scheme on the front?

    How much do I need to paypal you again?

    Give me about 30 minutes and I will send over my # list.
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    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com> Mon, Aug 20, 2007 at 7:06 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    The #'s on the back can be any # of colors you want, but blue and yellow are probably the most appropriate. It was $157 for the art fee and half of the printing fee.

    Thanks,
    Rusty


    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Mon, Aug 20, 2007 at 8:56 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com>
    Okay, what was the total amount again for everything? Just want to make sure I charge my guys the right amount. Also, whats your paypal address?

    My #s

    1-L
    2-M
    3-XL
    5-XL
    7-XL
    13-XL
    17-XL
    9-XL
    24-XL
    69-XL
    99-XL
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    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com> Mon, Aug 20, 2007 at 9:13 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    I think I priced it out with names & #'s on the back before. So if you just want #'s only, they will be $22 per shirt, + $25 design fee + Shipping. I'm not sure what the actual shipping will be, it should be around $20.

    You can PayPal me at rusty@jaxxshirts.com
    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Mon, Aug 20, 2007 at 9:20 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com>
    I need the sponsor name on the back too, I think you told me 23 per shirt with that, could be mistaken. Let me know
    [Quoted text hidden]


    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com> Mon, Aug 20, 2007 at 11:59 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Oh ok, that makes sense. I scrolled down and checked, I had quoted you $24 per shirt for the Toluca (white/royal) and $23 for the solid white. So that's right, it's $24 for a # and a sponsor.
    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 10:07 AM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Damn, this might be a problem. I collected $25 from everyone for shirts and need the cost to be as close to $25/person as possible. With the art fee and shipping this will probably put them more expensive. Anyway to get them for closer to $25 each?
    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com> Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 10:56 AM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    We are looking at 11 x $24 + $25 + shipping. I'll say $15 for the shipping (which will cost me more than that). That comes to $27.63 per shirt. If you were to get this exact same shirt and design from some others, you'd probably be paying around $30 (with sponsor on the back) per shirt + a $50 art fee, + $25 shipping/handling, which comes to $37 a shirt. So I'm almost 30% cheaper than the competition. I just can't go any lower and it still be worth my time. I haven't ordered the shirts yet, so if you need to cancel the order, I understand.

    Thanks,
    Rusty


    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 4:25 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Okay, lets do it. I guess I will have to eat the remaining $28 or get everyone to throw in a couple extra bucks.

    I will be sending over paypal now, how soon do you think you can have them made?

    On the back of the shirts above the #...

    Dutch Kettle
    Galveston Texas

    Center on the back
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    ________________________________________
    Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com> Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 10:08 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Dan,
    I know I mentioned it earlier, but just wanted to make sure you know before I place the order, these Toluca's run about 1/2 size small. So the guys knew this when they picked sizes, right?
    [Quoted text hidden]

    ________________________________________
    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com> Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 10:55 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com>
    Yeah, thats why we went with so many XLs.. The L is for a guy 5'2 and the M for a 5'3 guy
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  8. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 11:43 AM
    To: Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com>
    I forgot it takes a few days for funds to transfer to paypal, so I am waiting on that. I have 102 bucks in there right now and I can send that right now. Or I can wait and send the $157 when the rest becomes available. We definitely want to get the order moving tho.
    [Quoted text hidden]
    Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.


    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 1:55 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    You can wait until it gets transferred. I'll go ahead and order the shirts.

    Thanks,
    Rusty


    [Quoted text hidden]


    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 1:59 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Dan,
    I don't think we've picked out #'s yet. I'm attaching a #'s file. Pick one out that you want to use on the back, and let me know.

    Rusty


    [Quoted text hidden]


    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 3:14 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Thanks man, I have good references on softballfans.com if you want to check.
    [Quoted text hidden]


    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 3:15 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Nothing attached Rusty...
    [Quoted text hidden]


    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 3:21 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Sorry, here it is.
    [Quoted text hidden]




    Jaxx Number Fonts.pdf
    314K





    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 3:24 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    If its okay I am going to go with your best judgement on what will look best. Make the colors match the letering on the front obviously as far as insert and border color but pick the font that you think will go best. THanks agian
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    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 10:18 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Sending money tomorrow, have yuou got the shirts yet and have you started working? Check paypal tomorrow, my transfer should have gone thru and should be ready. I wanted to see how much for overnight or second day shipping as well. If they come out I want to get my tournament team shirts from you and hats, two shirts and hats.

    Thanks again
    [Quoted text hidden]
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    Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.


    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 11:53 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    No, I'm sorry, the shirts have not come in yet. I got a response saying the XL's were out of stock when I placed the order, but they expected them in any day. I'll check on it and let you know.

    Thanks,
    Rusty


    [Quoted text hidden]


    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 11:42 AM
    To: Rusty Davis <diamondjaxx@gmail.com>
    Any update on the shirts?
    [Quoted text hidden]
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    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 2:46 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Any update on the shirts
    [Quoted text hidden]
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    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Tue, Aug 28, 2007 at 12:04 AM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    They were shipped out today.

    Rusty


    [Quoted text hidden]


    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Tue, Sep 4, 2007 at 3:29 AM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Dan,
    assuming the shirts come in today, I will try to print them and ship them by the weekend.

    Thanks,
    Rusty


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    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Fri, Sep 7, 2007 at 12:26 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Hey Dan,
    I just printed the first of your jerseys, and here's a pic of it. I think it looks really good. I probably won't get them done in time to ship them out today, but maybe Saturday morning. I just wanted to give you an update so you know where they are.

    Thanks,
    Rusty


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    No Love No Glove - Front.jpg
    74K





    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Fri, Sep 7, 2007 at 12:41 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    I didnt know you were even still doing these man, you had taken so long I think we went with another vendor
    [Quoted text hidden]
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    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Fri, Sep 7, 2007 at 1:06 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    I emailed you on Tuesday telling you I would try to ship them by this weekend. Why didn't you let me know? Are telling me that you don't want them now that I have half of them done? And you never did send the down payment that you said you were going to, so I was doing you a favor by ordering and printing the shirts with no money down, trusting you.

    Please don't tell me you are going to back out on this now.

    Rusty


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    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Fri, Sep 7, 2007 at 1:21 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Dude you took forever!!! I never paid you and thought that would be a signal to you that we were going another direction. We only have 4 games left in the season and its been like 3 weeks since I placed my order, I think thats unacceptable. XXXXXXX printed and mailed shirts to me within 2 days and they will be here tomorrow.

    Not trying to screw you over, just figured you knew we werent interested when we didnt send you the half down via paypal like you requested.
    [Quoted text hidden]
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    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Fri, Sep 7, 2007 at 1:40 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    In this email chain, you begged me to order the shirts and start working on them before you could pay because you had to transfer the funds into your account. I trusted you and ordered the shirts and began working on them. Then you go with another vendor and don't even bother to let me know??? I just emailed you on Tuesday updating you on the shirts and telling you I would ship them out this weekend. Why didn't you tell me that you were backing out?

    So I'm out all this money out of my pocket trying to do you a favor? Is that the way you are going to leave this? You do you realize you are screwing me, right?


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    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Fri, Sep 7, 2007 at 1:43 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    How come XXXXXXX got me the shirts printed and mailed in 3 days and it has taken you like a month?
    [Quoted text hidden]
    Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.


    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Fri, Sep 7, 2007 at 1:56 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    You haven't paid me a penny. Did they do all the work for you on your word that you would pay them? Do you really expect me to ship your shirts to you without you paying for them? I normally won't even start on job or order the shirts until I get the down payment. But I did this as a favor to you. I don't understand how you can say I'm taking forever when you never sent the down payment.

    And I guarantee you XXXXX didn't sell you DyeSub'd Toluca's for anywhere near the price I was charging you.

    Also, you never told me when you needed them. If you had given me a specific date, I would have made sure you had them by your date, assuming you actually sent the down payment. The shirts were backordered originally and it took a little longer to get them than usual. I told you that.

    I don't understand why you let me print the shirts without the telling me that you went with another vendor.


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    Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Fri, Sep 7, 2007 at 6:31 PM
    To: Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    I never sent the down payment, you are exactly right. How was this not a sign to you that I didnt want the shirts anymore? I told you I would pay you in the next 2-3 days.

    XXXXXXX got my shirts done and mailed in 3 days. I will have them Monday. I can believe you would expect me to wait 3 weeks for a shirt order. These arent major league jerseys or anything.
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    Rusty Davis <rusty@jaxxshirts.com>
    Fri, Sep 7, 2007 at 7:38 PM
    To: Dan Altman <dan_altman1@yahoo.com>
    Did you ever think that you might have gotten your shirts sooner if you had actually sent the money? Why should I jump on your order when you won't pay. I work on the orders of paying customers first. This is criminal activity. You obtained my services and then are refusing to pay for them. You also agreed to pay the $25 design fee for me designing the logo. You owe me that as well. What do you expect me to do with these shirts that I have hundreds of $$ invested in? All you had to do was have the common decent courtesy to take 10 seconds and send me an email saying you were backing out of the order, when you KNEW I was going to print them. I would never treat another human being like that.

    Good riddens, and be thankful that I don't report you to the credit associations for no payment for services rendered.


    [Quoted text hidden]


     
  9. UHCoog1

    UHCoog1 Addicted to Softballfans

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    Is this really necessary? You cant handle this with me privately?
     
  10. UHCoog1

    UHCoog1 Addicted to Softballfans

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    Also, if you look at the emails you will notice I hadnt responded to your email for a week from the time the shirts werent coming in unttil the end of this thing. If you hadnt heard from me and didnt have any money from me yet why would you go forward with an order???? It had been a week since you last got a response!!!

    Why would you start work on an order when I hadnt given you a dime? I wouldnt work on someones stuff until they paid me, if they dont pay me I would take it as a sign they dont want their goods anymore.
     
  11. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    Obviously not, from all the previously private emails.
     
  12. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    You're right that I should not have done you the favor by working on the shirts you requested and promised to pay for, but I guess we all live and learn.

    And this is why I've offered to try to settle this by sending you an invoice for $75. $25 for the design fee that you agreed to, and $50 for a portion of the materials and labor that you promised to pay for. Believe me, I'm out a whole lot more than $75.
     
  13. Houstonsluggers

    Houstonsluggers New Member

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    I know Dan very well and played on his tournament team for a few games. Played league together and against each other for the last 2 or 3 years. So my response might be biased but I'm trying to look at this from both sides.

    What I see in the emails you posted is that from Aug 28th until September 7th, there were ZERO discussions going on with the shirts. That sounds like 10 days to me. I wouldn't send you the money for half the shirts if you didn't have them in stock either. Sounds like they didn't come in as soon as you thought. What it sounds like to me is you are ordering the shirts after you sell them or maybe even hiring out the entire printing job. Nothing wrong with that except you need to get payment first and not promise dates you can't deliver on.

    Maybe you order 100 shirts at a time. Who knows. I know that after 10 days of no contact, I'm not gonna ship a bat to someone that wanted to buy it or whatever.

    I didn't keep reading the emails but maybe you guys could work out a deal on the shirts. Like costs+ or something. That way you get rid of them and Dan's team gets a 2nd uniform. Or at least half the team gets a 2nd shirt.

    I wanted to add that it is definately an attempted order from the early emails. All I'm saying is I would touch base with the customer to let them know you have the shirts and would like to begin printing but need the payments as discussed. After 10 days of no discussions, I would expect someone to touch base with me before an email that half the shirts are done.
     
  14. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    Thanks for your insight. I did email him on the 28th saying the shirts had been shipped from the manufacturer, and then again on the 4th when they arrived. I don't think his lack of response to those 2 informational emails should be a signal for me to cancel the order. I've got a lot of orders going at the same time, and once they get into an "order status", I don't contact the buyer before printing just to check and make sure he still wants them. If he did not want the shirts at that point, he should have notified me that he was canceling the order.

    And just for informational purposes, I order most of the jerseys direct from the manufacturer upon order placement, and ask for half the money as a downpayment. I don't stock these because they are too expensive for me to stock. I do all of my work in house. I'm a 1-man shop that does basically everything from ordering, to printing, to shipping.

    I don't think Dan is a bad guy. I just think he made a very costly error, and I don't think I should be left holding the bag. I'm also hoping we can work something. I'm still trying.
     
  15. UHCoog1

    UHCoog1 Addicted to Softballfans

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    I definitely will work things out with you i just wish you wouldnt have stooped to the level you did with copying and pasting entire email conversations onto a public forum.
     
  16. OverDaFence

    OverDaFence At Fanatics

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    I have no dog in this fight, BUT....

    5 Problems here:

    1st, he printed them without any funds from the team and went by their word...... People will prove themselves non trustworthy if you give them as chance....

    2nd, The vendor acted in "GOOD FAITH" by moving forward based on previous emails.

    3rd, the Team decides that once the shirts are done to try and get out of the deal....

    4th is, I don't particularly care for the way you acted in emails and then make it HIS FAULT for printing them or POSTING THE EMAILS. FACT IS, YOU NEED TO PAY UP. He is stooping to GETTING PAID. Call IT BUSINESS... Call it STOOPING, but you OWE him for the shirts.

    5th, If you change your mind or the timeline isn't what you need, then you CANCEL if you CAN still CANCEL and not wait for someone to call you or email you for final payment.......

    Your email's state your full willingness to go along and wait....

    I think you owe for shirts and should pay.... Just my opinion...
     
    #16 OverDaFence, Sep 10, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2007
  17. uflouie

    uflouie Active Member

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    What else did you expect him to do after your first post when you basically called him a liar?
     
  18. Yoke

    Yoke Too sweeeeeeeet

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    You should have e-mailed him right away and told him you were going with somebody else.

    Probably bad moves on both of your parts.
     
  19. bobber_1077

    bobber_1077 Active Member

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    Wow, pretty much hit the nail on the head...
    Dan I would say that since you didn't cancel after giving the go-ahead that you pay for the jerseys, and you get a second set for the team.
     
  20. UHCoog1

    UHCoog1 Addicted to Softballfans

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    Its a league team, we only need one set of shirts.
     
  21. Houstonsluggers

    Houstonsluggers New Member

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    I agree that the communication could have been better on both sides. But all of us know from deals on these boards that there are people who say they will paypal you when they get home or paypal you friday and then never do. Is that right? No, not at all. Maybe some people are like that. Do you box their bat or glove up anyway? I don't!

    But you can either contact them to ask if they are still interested or just blow it off and try to sell the item to someone else. Now this is screwed up cause half the shirts were already printed.

    Would you really expect a deal to continue going forward if the guy you are dealing with doesn't have the materials? And then 10 days later say 50% of the job is done? Even though there's not a payment??

    I can see both sides here and see where both thought different things. Dan probably thought he'd order the shirts since he was out. Then let him know to send the payment, he was ready to print.

    Rusty thought he had an agreement to do the shirts but was still waiting a payment. He thought he's get ahead and print them since the order had already been slowed by him being out of shirts.

    I've had teammates ask me for a bat that I don't have. But tell them I can get one in about a week and the price will be between ?? and ??. I start looking for one and buy one. Then tell them, "Hey, I found a bat for you". 'Here's the price". They say, cool let me hit it first. They swing it and say "I'll have some money in a couple weeks". Then never buy it. A month passes and I sell it to someone else or they find a better deal. Not sure about you guys but that has happened to me about 5 or 6 times! Does that teammate owe me for the bat? No. not really. He didn't give me any money down but he said he wanted one and agreed that it was a good price. That doesn't complete a sale!

    I can tell the guy at the dealership that I really like that truck and it's a great price. But I'd like leather seats instead and custom rims. If he finds one or has that truck fixed for me...........I still don't owe him anything or have I made any guarantee to buy unless I signed somewhere or gave him a down payment. Even down payments aren't a promise to buy. They are for someone to hold something for you.

    I don't think it's right to waste someone's time with getting all the details worked and then buying from someone else. But there's still no financial responsibilities to the shopper. Seems odd that everyone here seems Dan should pay for the shirts even though the 10 days passed and he didn't have the shirts in those 10 days! He apparantly didn't have them for almost a full month (1st email to last). If he did, then why not hold them for the incomplete order if it was as good as done??
     
  22. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    Dan has made it clear that he does not want the shirts now, so I offered them to a local team at a big discount, and they really liked them. They are sweet shirts. So at least I'll recoup some of the costs.

    Dan, you asked me in a email how many shirts you get for the $75 settlement offer. The answer is 0. It's $25 for the design fee, which is completely independent from the shirt purchase, and is non-negotiable. The other $50 was to try to recoup some of the money and time I've spent on your shirts that you are now backing out on. $50 is a very generous offer, considering you've made it clear that you do not want the shirts.
     
  23. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    I'm not sure what the "10 days" time period has to do with anything. I never promised him shirts within 10 days, and he never told me he needed them within 10 days. I communicated throughout the process.

    And the official order was not placed until Aug 22, so we are talking 2 and half weeks from placement to shipping, and that includes the backorder delay. It was not "almost a full month". The quoting and negotiation process is not included in order time frame.
     
  24. ArmySball

    ArmySball NoRegrets SB Est 05

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    Well since I dont "KNOW" Dan, he asked more than once for paypal address to send funds and never did. granted, i wouldnt of started printing crap. but to me Dans word is ****. i do most if not all my deals on someones word!!! Dan backed out after working a deal and not sending money, odd he found another vendor????? see its a two way street, ill just add Dan to my not to deal with list.
     
  25. UHCoog1

    UHCoog1 Addicted to Softballfans

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    Have at it bro, I wont lose sleep.

    Jaxx, if you are selling the shirts and recouping your costs what do I need to pay you for? Double dipping?
     
  26. ArmySball

    ArmySball NoRegrets SB Est 05

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    most criminals dont, your the one that has to live with screwing ppl over. you need to pay him for a not sticking to your word!!
     
  27. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    As I already said, I sold them much cheaper than what you had promised to pay, just trying to get anything for them at this point, since I can't send them back to the manufacturer. Just forget about the $50 dude. I don't have time to be wasting on this any more. I've probably spent more than $50 worth of my time just messing with you. Just pay me the $25 for the design work that I did, and we can go our separate ways. I'll just chalk it up as a non-payment and learn from it. Too bad I can't trust other good guys in the future because of guys like you.
     
  28. UHCoog1

    UHCoog1 Addicted to Softballfans

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    "Because of guys like me"... lol

    If your charging me $25 shouldnt you change the paypal bill you sent me?
     
  29. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    Yes, I will gladly modify the invoice and resend it.
     
  30. JaxxShirts

    JaxxShirts Addicted to Softballfans

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    I also added sales tax to it since you are in the state of TX.
     

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