Need Feedback ASAP - Mike Ultra II in USSSA Play

Discussion in 'Ask the Umpire' started by AUsoftball, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. AUsoftball

    AUsoftball Supreme Commander of All

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    2
    Good Evening,

    I would like your feedback as we played a championship game this evening and the other team was found to be using an Mike Ultra II, the Ultra II they carried had the 2000 & 2004 ASA certification stamp. As a pitcher, my biggest concern is my safety, as a season Ultra II bat can produce serious velocity, and could cause a major injury to a player/pitcher. I have looked for an approved USSSA bat list, and cant find anything, and the Ultra II does not carry the required USSSA certification mark.....therefore is it legal for USSSA play?

    I know there is no issue with using an ASA bat for USSSA play, but since the Ultra II is banned for ASA play regardless of certification stamps, and since the bat does not carry a USSSA stamp, where does it fall?

    Your feedback is greatly appreciated

    Jeff
     
  2. Joker

    Joker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,958
    Likes Received:
    1,521
    no ultra or ultra 2 was made that had both the 2000 and 2004 stamps on them. also common sense says if it has no stamp it's not legal
     
    hitless45 likes this.
  3. AUsoftball

    AUsoftball Supreme Commander of All

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    2
    We were informed that the bat was sent back to Miken to receive the 2004 stamp. I did see both stamps on the bat, but since the bat did not carry a USSSA stamp, I protested the use of it.
     
  4. Joker

    Joker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,958
    Likes Received:
    1,521
    they are liars and cheaters
     
    SilentBob, hitless45 and bird25 like this.
  5. bird25

    bird25 34/30 Club #25

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2004
    Messages:
    11,985
    Likes Received:
    373
    Doesn’t have the usssa thumbprint, therefore not legal
     
    AH23 and hitless45 like this.
  6. smoke

    smoke 50AAA USA National Champs

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,731
    Likes Received:
    85
    No UII should have a 2004 ASA stamp
    SMOKE
     
    SammyJaxxx likes this.
  7. irishmafia

    irishmafia Addicted to Softballfans

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    Messages:
    4,640
    Likes Received:
    104
    Then you might want your colon checked for lung cancer, 'cause someone is blowing some serious smoke up your ass
     
    Theseaduck and tonys1 like this.
  8. AH23

    AH23 Addicted to Softballfans

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    53
    I'm so confused, he states it's USSSA but keeps asking about ASA stamps......
     
  9. Hiltz

    Hiltz Oozing with... something.

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    723
    Maybe 2 ASA stamps = 1 USSSA stamp?
     
    AH23 and bird25 like this.
  10. EAJuggalo

    EAJuggalo Addicted to Softballfans

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    34
    As of 2015, if it does not have the USSSA thumbprint stamp on it, it is not legal for sanctioned play. End of story. Prior to that the U2 was on the banned list.
     
  11. ilyk2win

    ilyk2win Addicted to Softballfans

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    9,133
    Likes Received:
    94
    "Senior" ball maybe?
     
  12. hitsone

    hitsone Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,780
    Likes Received:
    18
    It is on the ASA banned list, it does not have any USSSA stamp therefore it is a non approved bat, batter is out and ejected.Coach is ejected also. If there is noone to replace the ejected player the game is over. Offended team is given a 7-0 win.

    Having said all that, it applies to "sanctioned" USSSA events. For league play leagues may have their own bat lists or bat qualifications that supercede USSSA rules and couild allow bats without the USSSA stamp. Check your league rules. By league rules the batter may just have to change bats or may be an auto out for the rest of the game. Your coach should make sure that all players have a copy of the league rules.

    And yes it is on the SSUSA approved list for senior play.
    You were right to be worried about it's abilities. for years it was the bat that all the other senior bats were compared to
     
  13. AUsoftball

    AUsoftball Supreme Commander of All

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    2
    The league I play in allows ASA bats, and USSSA bats. ASA and USSSA bat use was approved by the league commissioner some time ago. To make a long story short, the player caught attempting to use the Ultra II got very defensive when I called him on it, and swore that the bat was approved by the league commissioner (It turned out that the commissioner never approved the bat, so the player falsified his approval). The umpire ruled in my favor and made the other team ditch the bat. The rest of the game was mayhem as there was constant issues coming back to the whole incident. From the sounds of things, the Ultra II may have had a 2000 ASA stamp, but should have never had a 2004 ASA stamp (it is possible that the bat was altered to add the 2004 ASA stamp, as a number of board members have stated that the ultra II never carried a 2004 ASA stamp, and no agency or Miken would place a 2004 ASA stamp on the bat). The other team has been warned that any additional bat issues will result in them being banned from any future league play indefinitely. Really bothers me that someone would place a person's safety at risk, all to hit the ball further.
     
    #13 AUsoftball, Sep 4, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
    bird25 likes this.
  14. NCASAUmp

    NCASAUmp My backpack’s got jets

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    11,638
    Likes Received:
    190
    You mean players LIE? :eek:
     
    baseballfrk806 and bird25 like this.
  15. EAJuggalo

    EAJuggalo Addicted to Softballfans

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    34
    Can I get a rule citation please? Under USSSA rule 7.2.B The batter is out once he hits the ball with an illegal bat. There is no mention of ejection unless the bat is altered, and the coach is only ejected in youth play for the use of an altered bat. Also there is no provision for a forfeit due to ejection without a sub unless you are playing Major, AA, A or the ejection brings the team below 9 players.
     
  16. ETDave

    ETDave Old School

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,441
    Likes Received:
    13
  17. 96packers

    96packers OG Titletown

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    38,787
    Likes Received:
    107
    Surprised that someone would actually cheat. Have also heard rumors of guys using a "SHAVED BAT". Never heard of such things and can't imagine a softball would cheat to improve himself!!


    :rolleyes: D I C K S
     
  18. Country469

    Country469 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    15,192
    Likes Received:
    1,065
  19. Country469

    Country469 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    15,192
    Likes Received:
    1,065
    The Umpire is responsible for the bats being checked before the game OP..........this is where the whole issue starts and ends
     
  20. ShortYellowBus

    ShortYellowBus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2017
    Messages:
    903
    Likes Received:
    653
    Just the idea that the manufacturers would print two ASA stamps on a bat is ridiculous.

    This is from three weeks ago. I hope it’s all sorted out by now.
     
  21. BigWhiffa

    BigWhiffa Underwear Researcher

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,929
    Likes Received:
    158
    there are Ultras that came out like 5 years ago that had new asa stamps on them no ultra II has teh 2004 stamp on it.
     
  22. Country469

    Country469 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    15,192
    Likes Received:
    1,065
    Well to be fair, USSSA had some Eastons where you could send em back and get a new stamp etched in the bat and it was fine. I dont remember the model #, so the idea a bat could carry two stamps is not completely foreign, throw in average league guys don't know this **** and here we are.
     
  23. Hiltz

    Hiltz Oozing with... something.

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    723
    There were a few models released just before the new stamp came into play (SCN18, SCN19, SCN20BW off the top of my head). The first wave was released with no thumbprint, then USSSA mandated the new stamp. Easton got the bats certified under the new standard and etched the thumbprint on their remaining unreleased inventory. As far as I know they never took any used bats back to etch the stamp.
     
  24. EAJuggalo

    EAJuggalo Addicted to Softballfans

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    34
    There is no mandate to check bats before a game in USSSA. In championship play, either the bats are tested and buckets are used. Or bats are examined by the umpire whenever they feel the need or the opposing team questions one. I usually do the first game of a tournament, but at Worlds last year I looked at probably 5 bats the whole weekend. All for sounding a little off, but nothing I could definitively say there was something wrong with them.
    I believe the SCN17BH was also on the list. All were bats that hadn't made it past the distributors. At least from what I have been told. Caused quite a stir when I threw a guy out for using one the first time. Then had to apologize when I saw him a month later.
     
  25. Country469

    Country469 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    15,192
    Likes Received:
    1,065

    well yeah the check at that point is being done at the buckets and not getting into play if not legal to begin with, so essentially the same thing or better
     

Share This Page