Runner taking a lead

Discussion in 'Ask the Umpire' started by trippy1313, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. trippy1313

    trippy1313 Starting Player

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    I tried searching but couldn't find what I was looking for. Close though.

    So last night they had a runner on 1st and 2nd. The guy on 2nd was an easy 2 feet off the bag leading off. Pitch is made, on contact ump calls "Dead ball! Dead ball!" Before any play could be attempted he calls dead ball, calls the runner out, and awards the guy on 1st ro second and the batter to 1st.

    Is that right? I would have guessed it should be runner out, no pitch dead ball.

    Our catcher notified the ump he was leading off at 1st before he reached 2nd, so it was likely looking for it this time, not like it was a surprise.
     
  2. Joker

    Joker Well-Known Member

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    dead ball when the pitch is released, no pitch, runner on 2nd is out
     
  3. trippy1313

    trippy1313 Starting Player

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    This is what we thought. Ump claimed it's a dead ball on contact (not the pitch), and only person out is the runner, batter and runner on first get their base.

    Didn't make sense because if a play could have been made then there could be additional outs that are essentially prevented by the runner leading off.
     
  4. lb16

    lb16 the natural

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    Ump got it wrong! Once he called dead ball runner off base is out all other runners stay put batter stays at plate.
     
  5. EAJuggalo

    EAJuggalo Addicted to Softballfans

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    How did the protest turn out?
     
  6. trippy1313

    trippy1313 Starting Player

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    Not much of a protest. Our "coach" went up after the inning to clarify why he called it that way and he just said that's the rule dead ball on contact not the pitch.

    Our whole team was sure that was wrong but without a rulebook we weren't gonna change his mind so we just left it. They scored 5 runs after that call. We lost.
     
  7. EAJuggalo

    EAJuggalo Addicted to Softballfans

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    If you want your umpires to get better use the protest process. As soon as this call is made it should have been protested.
     
  8. NCASAUmp

    NCASAUmp My backpack’s got jets

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    This is not a protest, this is simply a discussion.

    A protest is a formal process by which you state the following complicated sentence...

    "Blue, we are playing under protest."

    Crazy stuff here.
     
  9. trippy1313

    trippy1313 Starting Player

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    Oh I gotcha. Well, its rec league, and we sucked that day and at the time we didnt feel it was worth making a huge deal of it. But that's good advice, maybe we'll be more... assertive in the future if we disagree.
     
  10. RNRPLZ

    RNRPLZ Member

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    This umpire actually awarded a batter first base on a dead ball call? Wow, does he not know what that means when he, or she called it. That’s sad. No umpire is ever perfect. But com’on man....
     
  11. trippy1313

    trippy1313 Starting Player

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    That actually happened. Called the runner on 2nd out, awarded the batter 1st base and advanced the runner on 1st ro 2nd.

    We've never seen a player lead off before so never dealt with a call on it.
     
  12. LIKEUCM

    LIKEUCM Member

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    We all may be missing a bigger point here. If the umpire noticed that the runner was not on second base prior to the pitcher beginning his/her motion to pitch, he should have raised a hand to stop the pitch from being thrown and instructed the runner to properly occupy second base. It is our responsibility to ensure that all participants are on base before letting the pitch begin. Now if the runner vacated the base after the pitching motion began, he is toast. The umpire should step out from the plate while signaling a dead ball and calling "no pitch". Point at the runner off second base, and declare him out for leading off. The batter returns to the same ball and strike count prior to the pitch. My point is simple, don't set up players to be called out, if you can prevent it by properly managing your game. We are not coaches, but we are supposed to make sure that all offensive and defensive players are in the proper place before permitting a pitch.
     
  13. irishmafia

    irishmafia Addicted to Softballfans

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    Would love to see a citation on this one.

     
  14. ilyk2win

    ilyk2win Addicted to Softballfans

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    Is this situation different than not allowing the pitcher to pitch until the batter has both feet in the box?
     
  15. irishmafia

    irishmafia Addicted to Softballfans

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    There is a specific rule with a penalty (7.3.A) requiring the batter to be completely within the BB prior to the pitch. I can find no such rule concerning the runner(s) prior to a pitch. However, 8.7.R does declare the runner out for failing to keep contact with the base to which they are entitled.

    Assuming I saw the runner off the base, would I jump at getting the pitcher to throw the ball to get the cheap out? Hell, no. Would I hold up play and instruct the runner to get on the base? I shouldn't, I'm not a coach. I WOULD delay putting the ball into play to hopefully give the runner a chance to get on the base or the coach to get him/her on the base, but I'm not standing there waiting for someone who should know the rules to wake up.

    OTOH, for as much as we know, the umpire may not have realized he was off the base until the pitcher moved to make the pitch, which means an immediate dead ball, no pitch, runner off base is out and all other runners stay where they were at the time of the "dead ball" ruling..
     
  16. ilyk2win

    ilyk2win Addicted to Softballfans

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  17. RNRPLZ

    RNRPLZ Member

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    No dead ball. It’s a no pitch so how can it be dead ball? It’s like it was never thrown. Runner leading off is out. No other calls on that play unless the runner on first was leading off too and the umpire saw it.
     
  18. RNRPLZ

    RNRPLZ Member

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    You can’t allow the pitch if batter isn’t in the box entirely anyway. Different situation
     
  19. irishmafia

    irishmafia Addicted to Softballfans

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    If it is a "no pitch", the ball certainly is live :)
     

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