Floof swing

Iceman6409

Active Member
Batter takes basically a check sing at a high pitch. Clearly trying to aim the ball. Ball lands safely in right field. Clearly a floof swing. He tried to place the ball. Seen it many many times. He uses it to get on base cause the guy is insanely fast. Opposing pitcher is yelling he cannot do that and he MUST take a full swing. He did not chop the ball down to deaden it, it went into medium deep right field and he did not attempt to bunt. What say you all?
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
Batter takes basically a check sing at a high pitch. Clearly trying to aim the ball. Ball lands safely in right field. Clearly a floof swing. He tried to place the ball. Seen it many many times. He uses it to get on base cause the guy is insanely fast. Opposing pitcher is yelling he cannot do that and he MUST take a full swing. He did not chop the ball down to deaden it, it went into medium deep right field and he did not attempt to bunt. What say you all?

Nothing to say, the batter took a swing and hit the ball. Sort of the point of the game.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
What's the sanction? USA these two are correct as usual. USSSA this falls within the definition of a bunt and the Batter should have been called out. I know this call was made at Military Worlds and at least twice that I know of in the Conference. National Director of Officiating pointed out those calls and told us they were correct.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Not a SINGLE ONE of those hits are illegal. Not a one. "Break his wrists?" Where do they come up with that crap?

I had a team make that complaint to me back in 2010 at the Men's D/E Nationals. Guy took a half swing, the ball went into the outfield, and the coach started fussing about how the batter didn't "break his wrists." He insisted it's in the rules.

The only place the book mentions a batter's wrists breaking is in the guidance for umpires to determine whether the batter checked their swing. It's has nothing to do with determining whether the batter has bunted.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I called a guy out for a swing that was somewhat similar to the video posted above. Lefty. He basically took a soft, running swipe at the ball as he left the batter's box heading to first. He took a half swing and chopped the ball into the ground weakly toward 3B. In my opinion it was closer to a bunt than an actual swing.

It was a garbage swing, and I'd still call it if I had to do it over again.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
And this is why I'll never call for USSSA (besides the fact that I retired from the field). They spent the time to write a rulebook, yet when someone cries loudly enough that they don't like a call, they roll over and follow some hidden "Anti-Bush-League" rulebook that they magically pull out of their pocket to keep teams happy.

Let's look at what the USSSA rulebook actually defines as a bunt.

BUNT refers to a batted ball not swung at, but is intentionally met with the bat and tapped slowly.

It says it's not swung at. It doesn't say anything at all about how hard a swing must be, only that it's not swung at. A gentle swing, while bush league, is still a swing, like it or not.

It also says a bunt is when the ball is "met with the bat" and "tapped slowly." Guys, you know exactly what they're talking about - A BUNT! The batter holds the bat relatively still, and he taps the ball slowly to barely put it into play. A partial swing that puts the ball over the infielder's heads is not a bunt.

I'm calling USSSA out on the carpet for stuff like this. This is where USSSA loses all credibility as an organization that follows its own rules, because they make **** up as they go, just to keep teams paying. Years ago, there was a thread on here where a coach properly protested his batter being called out for touching first base while still holding the bat on a home run. The book explicitly said the rule did not apply on home runs, but when the protest was run up the flagpole with all the proper verbiage and quotations from USSSA's book, their highest "rule interpreter" upheld the out. Shame on him.

Blues (or Reds, in your case), I don't envy you. You have to do as your bosses tell you, and I get it. "When in Rome," right? But come on, U-Trip, if you're going to take the time to write a book, at least have the common sense to either follow it or change it.

What a joke.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Not a SINGLE ONE of those hits are illegal. Not a one. "Break his wrists?" Where do they come up with that crap?

I had a team make that complaint to me back in 2010 at the Men's D/E Nationals. Guy took a half swing, the ball went into the outfield, and the coach started fussing about how the batter didn't "break his wrists." He insisted it's in the rules.

The only place the book mentions a batter's wrists breaking is in the guidance for umpires to determine whether the batter checked their swing. It's has nothing to do with determining whether the batter has bunted.
The breaks his wrist comment came from the dugout of the team in the field. The directive we got in Cincinnati for the Major was that we were supposed to call it if the batter stopped or slowed his swing.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
The breaks his wrist comment came from the dugout of the team in the field. The directive we got in Cincinnati for the Major was that we were supposed to call it if the batter stopped or slowed his swing.

And I understand the position you’re in. If your UIC tells you to call something a particular way, you have no choice. I’ve been there myself, and you do what you have to do.

But there is absolutely nothing in the rule book that supports that call. Nothing. If they want it called that way, they should change the rule.

USSSA should be ashamed of themselves.
 

Joker

Well-Known Member
The breaks his wrist comment came from the dugout of the team in the field. The directive we got in Cincinnati for the Major was that we were supposed to call it if the batter stopped or slowed his swing.

every swing i have ever seen at any level of baseball or softball, the batter has stopped or slowed their swing. this is some bull**** wording.
 

Iceman6409

Active Member
In my case the swing was very much like the first batter in the video except the pitch was struck about shoulder height. It was a soft bloop to the outfield. I watched him again on his next at bat. He did the same thing. I watched where his bat finished. His bat stopped after about a little more than 2/3 of a swing and it was absolutely past home plate, but not a full swing. Pitcher kept yelling at me its in the rulebook you MUST take a full swing. For that comment alone he was 100% wrong. Definitely NOT a bunt swing and definitely not a chop swing. Not in the book. As I go through my years umpiring I am always fascinated by players who love to argue supposed rules in the book. I knew he was wrong because I have read the book and been taught. But my favorite one they argue about is the "deep" pitch. I hear it all the time. It does not exist in the rule book. But in the players minds, because a lot of umpires call it, it does exist. Every single time I hear somebody complain about it I tell them it does not exist and that I know this because I have looked several dozen times for it. I encourage them to look as well since, you know, they have all read the rule book. Never not once has anyone come back and told me I'm right because they don't make the effort.

Anyways a point I think we may have missed here is I believe this floof swing, or bunt swing or chop swing or whatever swing are all judgement calls in the end. I even told that to the pitcher at which point he told me I clearly don't know the rules. I even offered to let him protest the game if he was so sure he was right. I know a judgement call cannot be protested but we have been told to let players protest whatever they want, for several reasons. Mostly to keep play moving along and calm them down. No one has ever taken me up on that offer.
 

Iceman6409

Active Member
I called a guy out for a swing that was somewhat similar to the video posted above. Lefty. He basically took a soft, running swipe at the ball as he left the batter's box heading to first. He took a half swing and chopped the ball into the ground weakly toward 3B. In my opinion it was closer to a bunt than an actual swing.

It was a garbage swing, and I'd still call it if I had to do it over again.

In your opinion if he chopped down on the ball to deaden it than absolutely call them out
 

Chris_R

I Thought I Reacted Well
Legal or not, all I know is swinging like that a ***** move, and about as busch league as it can get.
 

Hiltz

Built for comfort
Because the game is getting a bit candy-assed as we see more rules and interpretations that seem to protect players from their own laziness and lack of skill

I think bat technology is a major culprit here. You have infielders playing 25' behind the baselines because ball exit speeds have gotten so ridiculous, it makes defending against "floof swings" nearly impossible. Toning down the equipment would go a long way towards bringing actual skill back into the game.
 

sleepin4matty

Management Material
I think bat technology is a major culprit here. You have infielders playing 25' behind the baselines because ball exit speeds have gotten so ridiculous, it makes defending against "floof swings" nearly impossible. Toning down the equipment would go a long way towards bringing actual skill back into the game.
but then you won't have the 135lb 5'5" guy hitting 400' bombs and that's no fun for him
 
I think bat technology is a major culprit here. You have infielders playing 25' behind the baselines because ball exit speeds have gotten so ridiculous, it makes defending against "floof swings" nearly impossible. Toning down the equipment would go a long way towards bringing actual skill back into the game.
It takes actual skill to place the ball where you want.
 

clementeunknown

Addicted to Softballfans
Yesterday a guy on the other team did a drag bunt/swing, never followed through and ump didn't call him on it. I did the same thing but was early and it rolled just foul. The ump gave me a warning, and my coach threw a **** fit asking "how is that any different". Next AB I just ripped a 3 run HR to left and I bat flipped like Jose Bautista out of spite. MORAL OF THE STORY: don't leave it up to the ump
 

clementeunknown

Addicted to Softballfans
I think bat technology is a major culprit here. You have infielders playing 25' behind the baselines because ball exit speeds have gotten so ridiculous, it makes defending against "floof swings" nearly impossible. Toning down the equipment would go a long way towards bringing actual skill back into the game.

I honestly cannot discern a difference between today's game and the days of double walls and Super Dupers
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
I think bat technology is a major culprit here. You have infielders playing 25' behind the baselines because ball exit speeds have gotten so ridiculous, it makes defending against "floof swings" nearly impossible. Toning down the equipment would go a long way towards bringing actual skill back into the game.

Blame that on the idiots who are dumb enough to pay the $$ just to boost their ego. If you can really play the game, wood and aluminum would work.
 
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NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Blame that on the idiots who are dumb enough to pay the $$ just to boost their ego. If you can really play the game, wood and aluminum would work.
A lot of teams whined when ASA switched to the .52/300 ball, saying that the ball doesn't carry.

The guys at the Border Battle were hitting that ball over the scoreboard at Hall of Fame Stadium with wooden bats. "Doesn't carry," my ***...
 
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