Can a ump change his call?

Reubeo28

New Member
Here is what happened last night. 2 outs runner on 2nd. Batter hits grounder to 2nd. Bad throw to 1st leaves the 1st baseman sitting on the base bobbling the ball between his legs. He picks it up and the ump calls out. But drops it too soon and ump says safe. There was enough delay in the out to safe change that the infield players had started to the dugout. In the meantime the guy from second has went home. Ump sticks to his safe call and allows run to score. Guess I always thought a ump can't change his call. And if he can should the play be dead or is the run allowed to score even though everyone quit the play as soon as he said out since it was the 3rd out?
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Guess you thought wrong. :)

Why shouldn’t an umpire be able to change the call if they know that it’s wrong? Of course an umpire can change their call.

However, if an umpire changes the call and puts either side in jeopardy, then the plate umpire is charged with rectifying the situation as fairly as possible. In this case, the defense reacted to the out call and stopped playing, so I’d put the runner who started on 2nd back on 3rd base (since it sounds like that’s where he ended up when the out call was made).
 

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
If F3 has possession of the ball while sitting on the base, did not obstruct the batter runner, and before the batter runner got to 1st base then the batter runner is out. Even F3 subsequently lost possession of the ball.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
If F3 has possession of the ball while sitting on the base, did not obstruct the batter runner, and before the batter runner got to 1st base then the batter runner is out. Even F3 subsequently lost possession of the ball.
If the umpire judges that the fielder had possession of the ball the instant he touched first base, yes, that's an out. But it sounds like the umpire judged that the fielder did not have possession and changed his call to safe.
 
Guess you thought wrong. :)

Why shouldn’t an umpire be able to change the call if they know that it’s wrong? Of course an umpire can change their call.

However, if an umpire changes the call and puts either side in jeopardy, then the plate umpire is charged with rectifying the situation as fairly as possible. In this case, the defense reacted to the out call and stopped playing, so I’d put the runner who started on 2nd back on 3rd base (since it sounds like that’s where he ended up when the out call was made).

I agree with either umpire having the authority as well as common sense to change a call that he may have missed initially.

I disagree with the plate umpire being charged with rectifying the situation? If the plate umpire is asked by the base umpire for help he can offer his perspective but he never overturns any call unless asked for help and agreed by the base Umpire, in any classification of baseball or softball. If this were allowed, all Credibility would be lost by this umpiring tandem.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
I agree with either umpire having the authority as well as common sense to change a call that he may have missed initially.

I disagree with the plate umpire being charged with rectifying the situation? If the plate umpire is asked by the base umpire for help he can offer his perspective but he never overturns any call unless asked for help and agreed by the base Umpire, in any classification of baseball or softball. If this were allowed, all Credibility would be lost by this umpiring tandem.
The plate umpire is not overturning the call, but as the umpire in chief of the game is responsible for placement of the runners in a situation like this. If the two umpires get together, whatever umpire made the initial call will make the follow up call, then the plate umpire is going to direct the runners if they feel that the miscall put either team in jeopardy.
 
The plate umpire is not overturning the call, but as the umpire in chief of the game is responsible for placement of the runners in a situation like this. If the two umpires get together, whatever umpire made the initial call will make the follow up call, then the plate umpire is going to direct the runners if they feel that the miscall put either team in jeopardy.
Ok, this response is worded better.
 

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
I agree with either umpire having the authority as well as common sense to change a call that he may have missed initially.

I disagree with the plate umpire being charged with rectifying the situation? If the plate umpire is asked by the base umpire for help he can offer his perspective but he never overturns any call unless asked for help and agreed by the base Umpire, in any classification of baseball or softball. If this were allowed, all Credibility would be lost by this umpiring tandem.

Then you should read the rulebook. See Rule 10, Section 3:C
 
Then you should read the rulebook. See Rule 10, Section 3:C

And you my friend skipped Rule 10 Umpires, Section 3 Umpire’s judgment, Para B which is what I stressed, “Under no circumstances will any umpire seek to reverse a decision made by an associate, nor shall any umpire criticize or interfere with the duties of their associate(s), unless asked to do so

Rule 10, Sec 3, para C does state that the home plate umpire is the one that announces to both teams, directs fielders and runners on the field to correctly show the results of any changed calls on the field. You are correct on this, I read into the word “rectify” as you stated earlier as having authority to both change the call, announce the ruling and why, as well as correctly place runners due to the change in the umpires call. Can’t have C without a change in an umpires ruling on a play. Can’t have a change in an umpires call without mutual agreement.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
By rule, you’re correct that the plate umpire does not “overrule” another umpire’s judgment. However, as I said in my previous post, the plate umpire only steps in when an umpire reverses their call and puts one side or the other in jeopardy.

There’s a reason why I phrase things the way I do when I post online. I use phrasing that parallels the exact wording in the rule book, as paraphrasing the rules is what tends to get umpires and coaches in trouble. That’s how we end up with coaches insisting on rules that don’t exist, and I’ve could write a whole book on those kinds of misunderstandings on the field.

Yes, the wording in the book is a little… clunky. However, that’s the phrasing it uses, and that’s why I answered how I did.
 
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