2023 USSSA Rule Changes

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
This may be all unconfirmed rumor, but the weird going around about why Cincinnati was dropped from the conference schedule is no turf infield. They say that the sponsors don't want to pay to send people to a place that can't handle rain.

If you're pulling sites owned by Brian Wegman, after he held two tournaments during COVID so they could get the events in while other places couldn't, because sponsors are complaining that tells me they're heading down a very short pier. You can't run an organization like that and expect it to go anywhere.
I have been told that Wegs was consulted before the schedule came out and he and Dave understand why the decision was made. Every Conference player surveyed said that MAB was the worst park they played in and the one they wanted to see removed. I've said for three years that RCW is a much better park from a field conditions standpoint than MAB, everyone loves the atmosphere at MAB but the fields aren't good enough. Supposedly Helmer talked with Wegs and told him that they will look again for next year. I think Field 4 has been shortened by 10 feet since I started umpiring there.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I have been told that Wegs was consulted before the schedule came out and he and Dave understand why the decision was made. Every Conference player surveyed said that MAB was the worst park they played in and the one they wanted to see removed. I've said for three years that RCW is a much better park from a field conditions standpoint than MAB, everyone loves the atmosphere at MAB but the fields aren't good enough. Supposedly Helmer talked with Wegs and told him that they will look again for next year. I think Field 4 has been shortened by 10 feet since I started umpiring there.
I can't argue with any of that, and at least twice since I've been here they've had flooding up to the roof of the clubhouse. The short field has no lights behind the fence so it's terrible at night, and the one next to it has horrible infield shadows for most of the day. The other two shouldn't be a problem, but there are only four total so you can't run it all on two fields.

I like West, but the biggest problem across all complexes is that in order to play at all in March, they have to use so much diamond dry the fields are toast by summer. The ground up here sucks, and that's coming from someone that spent 8 years on ga clay. If they're not slightly wet it's like asphalt with a layer of sand on top. Raking ain't helping that.

What they ought to do imo, is try and coordinate the major with the start of the metro. That would be a lot if work, but that would be a huge win for utrip exposure, etc.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
This may be all unconfirmed rumor, but the weird going around about why Cincinnati was dropped from the conference schedule is no turf infield. They say that the sponsors don't want to pay to send people to a place that can't handle rain.

If you're pulling sites owned by Brian Wegman, after he held two tournaments during COVID so they could get the events in while other places couldn't, because sponsors are complaining that tells me they're heading down a very short pier. You can't run an organization like that and expect it to go anywhere.

I'm not a conference player, but I noticed that the schedule for next year seems really thin. Way fewer dates/tournies than before, and lots of places not hosting anymore. Softball is not really meant to be played on turf. I think USSSA is having some serious internal problems, and the pathetic conference schedule next year shows that.

OK, OH, CO, AZ, MD, lots of other places missing. WEAK looking schedule. Maybe having a nationwide softball system just isn't feasible anymore. IDK.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
All of the tournaments dropped had issues of one kind or another. Tulsa hasn't been on the schedule the last couple years, the last two years it was on there it was Seminoles and a bunch of C teams. OH, couldn't get dates at Berliner and Cincy was out. CO, I recall hearing about a ton of issues in Loveland the last time it was there as well as problems with the director. AZ I'm surprised by but that may have been a survey issue or they weren't kicking back enough to the Conference. MD, didn't draw the teams for the two tournaments they had in the DC area.
Survey results were that the teams all wanted fewer tournaments to get more Conference teams to the tournaments they do have. Detroit got dropped due to lack of teams after one year. Two new tournaments, one in Nashville and one in SoCal, the Busch is back on the schedule on the women's side.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
All of the tournaments dropped had issues of one kind or another. Tulsa hasn't been on the schedule the last couple years, the last two years it was on there it was Seminoles and a bunch of C teams. OH, couldn't get dates at Berliner and Cincy was out. CO, I recall hearing about a ton of issues in Loveland the last time it was there as well as problems with the director. AZ I'm surprised by but that may have been a survey issue or they weren't kicking back enough to the Conference. MD, didn't draw the teams for the two tournaments they had in the DC area.
Survey results were that the teams all wanted fewer tournaments to get more Conference teams to the tournaments they do have. Detroit got dropped due to lack of teams after one year. Two new tournaments, one in Nashville and one in SoCal, the Busch is back on the schedule on the women's side.


Putting CO's tourny in Loveland was a big mistake. It used to be at Aurora sports park, which are the nicest fields in CO. Loveland isn't really a venue to host a major. CO's getting new USSSA directors next year, and they seem to be eager/knowledgeable. I guess we'll see.

I liked the tourny at that new park in AZ this year, and I'm really surprised they aren't having it there again next year. Gorgeous fields.

Tulsa was a fun one. Too bad that one went away.

Detroit's a lousy place to go. I bet no one wants to travel there to play.

I do agree with your assertion that having less events will mean more teams sign up for them. It is kinda silly to have 2 conference tournies every weekend. It waters down the competition badly.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
A great gap event would be a superdraft. It could be like their all star game where we see guys playing with different people.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
There are three main groups of Conference umpires, those that have the cred built to ring him up without consequences, those that play the politics of it and it has to be absolutely perfect to ring him up and those that don't care and will ring him up. I fall into that third category, he hates me. I rang him up twice in one game a couple years ago and then called him out in the Challenge Cup championship last year.

If Donnie was doing commentary, this was at the Major World Series? They all know the strike zones of every umpire there very well. Some of them are so damn small you'd never get one called. Others encourage guys to swing. For the first time there is going to be a Conference Umpire seminar where we are all getting together to learn how the 4th floor wants us to call the game.


I think it was this game, but I'm at work so I can't be sure. Ce vs mpt
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
This must be the one
Best part was seeing them call Flip for the bunt in the first. Chase Cope was on the plate. I haven't worked with him, but he's been there a couple times working the Major.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
This must be the one
Best part was seeing them call Flip for the bunt in the first. Chase Cope was on the plate. I haven't worked with him, but he's been there a couple times working the Major.

What the hell was Flip doing "bunting"? Was it one of those cheesy little slaps into the ground? I've seen that called at worlds before. Best hitters in the world and they still do crap like that....:rolleyes:
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
What the hell was Flip doing "bunting"? Was it one of those cheesy little slaps into the ground? I've seen that called at worlds before. Best hitters in the world and they still do crap like that....:rolleyes:
Pretty much, he pretty much stopped his swing so that the ball would roll slowly at the 3B. No doubt in my mind it was intentional and met the definition of a bunt in the rule book. This was Friday night in the winner's bracket final when everyone knew the ball wasn't flying. After I watched that one I watched the C championship, I had forgotten that two of the guys from Anarchy hit balls out of the Stadium. They really should have played Friday and Saturday with the good ProMs rather than the bad Stadiums they had.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I forgot the c championship was going to be on there. I'll have to see if I can find it.

Except for the one guy walking on strike three I thought the umps did a pretty good job. That's why I can't ump. I can't have a guy arguing with me that knows they're wrong without calling them out for it. I know it's all sports, but I don't ump those either.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
What the hell was Flip doing "bunting"? Was it one of those cheesy little slaps into the ground? I've seen that called at worlds before.

Pretty much, he pretty much stopped his swing so that the ball would roll slowly at the 3B. No doubt in my mind it was intentional and met the definition of a bunt in the rule book. This was Friday night in the winner's bracket final when everyone knew the ball wasn't flying. After I watched that one I watched the C championship, I had forgotten that two of the guys from Anarchy hit balls out of the Stadium. They really should have played Friday and Saturday with the good ProMs rather than the bad Stadiums they had.

That stadium is hard to hit balls out of. I've never done it, but I've hit the fence 4 different times. 3 were with Pro Ms during the 40+ challenge cup. Another time was with a stadium ball during military worlds.

I've hit a few out of red Wilson, a couple off red Rawlings, and 1 off red Easton. You literally have to hit a ball perfectly to get it out of there, and the wind can't be blowing in.

What batch were the "bad" stadiums? DV?
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
What batch were the "bad" stadiums? DV?
Yes, the DV code was what got used Thursday through Saturday. On Wednesday they were still using the CO batch we had for Major at Challenge Cup. Once they were out of those the only Stadiums they could find anywhere in the country were DV. I've been told it was discussed using the ProM but no one would put their name on the decision.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
Yes, the DV code was what got used Thursday through Saturday. On Wednesday they were still using the CO batch we had for Major at Challenge Cup. Once they were out of those the only Stadiums they could find anywhere in the country were DV. I've been told it was discussed using the ProM but no one would put their name on the decision.

Those DV balls were horrendous. The Pro M ones were bad too. DM weren't any better.
 

bigwignj

Addicted to Softballfans
. OH, couldn't get dates at Berliner and Cincy was out.
Berliner is OneNation headquarters. They’ll never be able to get that again as long as OneNation exists.

Pretty sure the dude that runs onenation was the guy who got fired from running GSL like 4-5 years ago.
 

bigwignj

Addicted to Softballfans
That stadium is hard to hit balls out of. I've never done it, but I've hit the fence 4 different times. 3 were with Pro Ms during the 40+ challenge cup. Another time was with a stadium ball during military worlds.
pretty sure one of those off the wall was off me at challenge cup last year
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Berliner is OneNation headquarters. They’ll never be able to get that again as long as OneNation exists.

Pretty sure the dude that runs onenation was the guy who got fired from running GSL like 4-5 years ago.
The guy running OneNation is the guy that got fired from GSL and there may not be OneNation after this year. The lawsuit is finally supposed to see the inside of a courtroom this month. The breach of contract damages claim I've been told is massive.
GSL and USSSA Ohio had dates at Berliner last year, including GSL Worlds in September, the year before they had the Conference Championships there.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I've always played gsl world there. I like the park, but my team plays like they don't. I think our best is 2-2.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
I wouldn't really be surprised by any decisions coming down this week. Anything from a full ban to stripping the stamp going forward to nothing happening. What I'm hearing is that Suncoast and Juno bats manufactured were fundamentally different than the samples supplied for testing.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't know anything about their testing it standards, but every Juno review I've seen on YouTube has them failing in under 100 swings. If they submitted something much more durable this could be tough for them.

I've never swung either.
 

cmo27

Local Celebrity
The guy running OneNation is the guy that got fired from GSL and there may not be OneNation after this year. The lawsuit is finally supposed to see the inside of a courtroom this month. The breach of contract damages claim I've been told is massive.
GSL and USSSA Ohio had dates at Berliner last year, including GSL Worlds in September, the year before they had the Conference Championships there.

Link to the docket for the case. Not a ton of info in it
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I don't know anything about their testing it standards, but every Juno review I've seen on YouTube has them failing in under 100 swings. If they submitted something much more durable this could be tough for them.

I've never swung either.

I don't know exactly what's going on w/ Juno and Suncoast bats here, but I'll briefly discuss my Juno experiences and thoughts. When 240s first came out (2021) I bought a Juno MR1 to take to a conference event in TX. It was one of the first Junos made. Very durable bat, and it tests at 300ish. Later that year I bought an MR2. Very similar, tests at 275. Later on I bought a MK18 used that tests at about 270.

Juno's early models test high, and are very durable. Now, a lot of their newer stuff seems to start at very low compression, and some have even been known to fail with the wrapper on them. For what Junos go for pricewise, I'd NEVER buy any of their newer stuff. WAY too fragile.

Suncoast bats simply aren't durable. A lot of guys I know swing them, and they fail compression testing within a couple tournies.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I wouldn't really be surprised by any decisions coming down this week. Anything from a full ban to stripping the stamp going forward to nothing happening. What I'm hearing is that Suncoast and Juno bats manufactured were fundamentally different than the samples supplied for testing.

Can you provide a bit more detail about what's going on here? This is the first I'm hearing about any potential problems w/ Suncoasts or Junos.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't know exactly what's going on w/ Juno and Suncoast bats here, but I'll briefly discuss my Juno experiences and thoughts. When 240s first came out (2021) I bought a Juno MR1 to take to a conference event in TX. It was one of the first Junos made. Very durable bat, and it tests at 300ish. Later that year I bought an MR2. Very similar, tests at 275. Later on I bought a MK18 used that tests at about 270.

Juno's early models test high, and are very durable. Now, a lot of their newer stuff seems to start at very low compression, and some have even been known to fail with the wrapper on them. For what Junos go for pricewise, I'd NEVER buy any of their newer stuff. WAY too fragile.

Suncoast bats simply aren't durable. A lot of guys I know swing them, and they fail compression testing within a couple tournies.
I have wanted to try both because why not, but the reasons you have stated are the main why I haven't. I can buy fragile bats all day for 99 bucks, why would I play three hundred for one?
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I have wanted to try both because why not, but the reasons you have stated are the main why I haven't. I can buy fragile bats all day for 99 bucks, why would I play three hundred for one?

Yeah. Juno's early bats are very durable, and decent performers. Their newer stuff is laughably brittle, and FAR more expensive than they should be.

If I have to swing all 240s next year I'm buying $99 bats. To pay more than that is idiocy, especially since the bats aren't super durable from any manufacturer.

Suncoasts are also super expensive. Even on "sale" they're like $275. Just not worth it.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
You can pick up a demarini fur close to that, and an anarchy for 99 that's ready out of the wrapper basically.

I agree, I'm not buying any more bats at all till this settles down. I already have one of each of the above bats.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Can you provide a bit more detail about what's going on here? This is the first I'm hearing about any potential problems w/ Suncoasts or Junos.
There were issues the entire conference season with bats failing either in the wrapper or passing fresh out of the wrapper on Friday afternoon and failing Saturday night when the final four got retested. I know Rip Riporti of Juno had a long conversation with Stro about this at at least one event. My understanding is that USSSA took a few bats from each manufacturer used at the Major World Series and put them through the same tests that are done on the model samples prior to approval. It's been reported that Suncoast and Juno had their bats fail those tests, i.e. if they had submitted those for approval they wouldn't have gotten a stamp. No one knows yet what the fallout from that testing will be. I don't know where the speculation that a decision would be announced today came from, I haven't heard anything but I'm pretty far removed from the people that make those decisions, at least until I get to Florida next month for CC.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I guess we'll find out how airtight their legalese is.

This'll be very interesting to watch.
 
Top