2024 Rule Changes

[ilyk2win]

I think bumps should last for at a minimum of 18 months. There are adjustments that need to be made, as a team grows from being dominant in a lower division to being competitive at the next level. Growing pains if you will. The concept shouldn't be, we dominated at D so we should dominate immediately at C. There is usually an eye-test for me. The difference is usually pitching, overall defense and better 7-10 hitters. Guys don't really want to compete and grind though, they just want to win easily and then brag on social media. Weird!

 

[EAJuggalo]

I'm seeing a facebook post that was reposted to Reddit saying that the 8 E teams from NTX that caught autobumps in 2023 are being moved to D+ for 2024. Also saw a report that OH is doing the same thing. @jbo911 you seeing anything locally that Bradney is doing this?

 

[TWmccoy]

I think bumps should last for at a minimum of 18 months. There are adjustments that need to be made, as a team grows from being dominant in a lower division to being competitive at the next level. Growing pains if you will. The concept shouldn't be, we dominated at D so we should dominate immediately at C. There is usually an eye-test for me. The difference is usually pitching, overall defense and better 7-10 hitters. Guys don't really want to compete and grind though, they just want to win easily and then brag on social media. Weird!

Even on C teams I've seen bad 7-10 hitters. You'll see a range of hitters from very good to decidedly below average. Most of the bad hitters on C teams are there for speed or defensive prowess. C teams are better than D teams usually because of defense, pitching, and top of the batting order. Now, on a B team you'll have good hitters throughout. No dead spots in the order.

D teams sometimes don't even really have a "heart" of the order. They just have a mishmash of average hitters 1-10.

Any D team that gets bumped to C and expects to be instantly successful is going to be in for disappointment. It takes work, and guys will have to continue to improve personally if the team's going to get better.

 

[jbo911]

I'm seeing a facebook post that was reposted to Reddit saying that the 8 E teams from NTX that caught autobumps in 2023 are being moved to D+ for 2024. Also saw a report that OH is doing the same thing. @jbo911 you seeing anything locally that Bradney is doing this?

I have not, but I came here right now because I saw someone outside of oh saying they were c+ now because of an auto bump and wanted to see if you'd updated this thread lol. I'll keep an eye out.

 

[jbo911]

The difference in division and gaps is varies and complicated. The eye test is usually how they're lumped together.

Every team makes moves to be the best they can be at their level. Sometimes people make moves to try and move up pre bump, but mostly it's only if bumped.

With more people at the lower levels, that's just naturally easier there. Every season prior a team bumped to d would normally create d chips that wanted to stay down in e creating better e teams to get bumped at the end of if that year. As you go up, that dynamic changes.

Fewer divisions would be the most obvious solution. A and B, then C and D for the rest of us would eliminate two levels of these issues. Every bumped team is going to think about eliminating their less efficient players to add more consistent players since they can now add anyone from the division up, and with chips even another division up. Those dropped players may have trouble funding a team since they weren't in this division the year before, and weren't good enough to stay on a team that just got hit there.

To compete after bump, teams should add players, which is in direct contrast to the theoretical reason for bumps of teams getting better and growing together. The other big problem is that the game values some players and positions much more than others. Players that don't play those positions could find themselves forced out of if the game, and teams in need of those players could as well.

There's no easy answer, but in light of what's coming next I think reigning in the equipment will be better than dealing with millions of appeals or vanishing players.

 

[EAJuggalo]

I have not, but I came here right now because I saw someone outside of oh saying they were c+ now because of an auto bump and wanted to see if you'd updated this thread lol. I'll keep an eye out.

Will you share what state? I'm very interested in what states are doing this already and I'm seeing just about the entire committee at Challenge Cup next week.

Since I was an E player almost twenty years ago I've said E should be a one way street, once you get bumped from E you can't go back, ever. The whole point of E was to give league ballers a chance to play in some tournaments. Now an E tournament team looks nothing like a league team. If you aren't going to do that, then get rid of E Worlds. Have E Nationals but you must be D or above for Worlds. I think that would actually bring more tournament players in since they could actually compete in E rather than having 5 year tournament players and fully sponsored teams beating the piss out of them.

 

[TWmccoy]

Will you share what state? I'm very interested in what states are doing this already and I'm seeing just about the entire committee at Challenge Cup next week.

Since I was an E player almost twenty years ago I've said E should be a one way street, once you get bumped from E you can't go back, ever. The whole point of E was to give league ballers a chance to play in some tournaments. Now an E tournament team looks nothing like a league team. If you aren't going to do that, then get rid of E Worlds. Have E Nationals but you must be D or above for Worlds. I think that would actually bring more tournament players in since they could actually compete in E rather than having 5 year tournament players and fully sponsored teams beating the piss out of them.

I do agree that once you get bumped to D you should never be able to return to E. E is for guys who are just getting into tourny ball. Players should play perhaps 1 year of E only. Once you're a semi-established tourny player it's off to D land for you.

Honestly, the game would grow a lot if average league players could put a team in an E tourny and not get thrashed by a bunch of guys who have played E for 8 years.

I don't think there should be E worlds either. If you have world aspirations, move up to D.

 

[jbo911]

Will you share what state? I'm very interested in what states are doing this already and I'm seeing just about the entire committee at Challenge Cup next week.

Since I was an E player almost twenty years ago I've said E should be a one way street, once you get bumped from E you can't go back, ever. The whole point of E was to give league ballers a chance to play in some tournaments. Now an E tournament team looks nothing like a league team. If you aren't going to do that, then get rid of E Worlds. Have E Nationals but you must be D or above for Worlds. I think that would actually bring more tournament players in since they could actually compete in E rather than having 5 year tournament players and fully sponsored teams beating the piss out of them.

I will keep an eye out. I tried searching for it and it's either in a sales group that deleted it for not being a sale, FB search just sucks. Could be both.

As a person that has played e for almost ten years you're not wrong. If e rec still exists it should be gone.

We thought we might get bumped this year for winning one tournament and a few top five finishes, but we also finished the year barely 500.

We are, to be frank, the people utrip is trying to make quit. We're mostly older guys that played baseball and are still serviceable defensively, but not consistent offensively. We've beaten a d team almost every year since I moved here, but we've also only won one e tournament in that time. We've win a few non qualifying tournaments, one if those a big one, but we're not consistent. Mostly, we don't play the political game of softball today. One of our chips last year didn't even start for us, and another was a spot player leadoff who got injured and couldn't even play of, his main position.

We're competing, but we're losing to teams that have people appealled down to d who should be c as their chips, and d appealled down to e as their e guys. Well never dominate in e. If we get bumped just of us will play, but I'm out best pitcher and I'm nearing 50. I can hang while healthy, but 50 year old know what that really means. We need reliable backups, and right now one is younger than me, but in worse shape and the other is 51.

Well gladly move to d if forced, but if we facing these toes I'd teams in e, it'll be the same in d with one level added to each spot so we all know what happens next.

 

[ilyk2win]

Fewer divisions would be the most obvious solution.

The funny thing about this is that they are actually creating MORE divisions....with a "Rec" division now. They are not solving any problems, just masking them, for as long as they can continue to print money.

 

[EAJuggalo]

Few things after being in Viera this weekend. The new foul tip rule is written badly, it was written by the national director of Slowpitch and will need to get fixed. Any foul ball that does not get higher than the top of the batter's head that is caught by the catcher is merely a foul ball. Where it contacts the catcher is irrelevant.
World dates were moved for multiple reasons. There is a once every four year fastpitch event that needed a weekend and there were some that expressed concern about the number of players that played E Worlds and then were added to a D roster to play D worlds the next weekend. Moving D to the start of the event solves both of these issues.
Players really need to learn the rules. The number of outs missed because no one was watching the runners touch bases, pitcher's that can't keep their feet on the rubber, and first basemen that stand right in the baseline on a single to left field shocks me.

 

[ilyk2win]

Yeah but they can hit a ball over 300' with juiced bats and balls so they don't care. Learning rules would be akin to taking structured BP to get better and working on fielding mechanics to ascend from the ranks of E.......simply put - not happening!

 

[jbo911]

Few things after being in Viera this weekend. The new foul tip rule is written badly, it was written by the national director of Slowpitch and will need to get fixed. Any foul ball that does not get higher than the top of the batter's head that is caught by the catcher is merely a foul ball. Where it contacts the catcher is irrelevant.
World dates were moved for multiple reasons. There is a once every four year fastpitch event that needed a weekend and there were some that expressed concern about the number of players that played E Worlds and then were added to a D roster to play D worlds the next weekend. Moving D to the start of the event solves both of these issues.
Players really need to learn the rules. The number of outs missed because no one was watching the runners touch bases, pitcher's that can't keep their feet on the rubber, and first basemen that stand right in the baseline on a single to left field shocks me.

Question on the pitching while not on the rubber, how does that work? Do you just call a ball, and not say more unless they ask? Is it a dead ball if they swing, or swing at your own peril?

 

[TWmccoy]

Few things after being in Viera this weekend. The new foul tip rule is written badly, it was written by the national director of Slowpitch and will need to get fixed. Any foul ball that does not get higher than the top of the batter's head that is caught by the catcher is merely a foul ball. Where it contacts the catcher is irrelevant.
World dates were moved for multiple reasons. There is a once every four year fastpitch event that needed a weekend and there were some that expressed concern about the number of players that played E Worlds and then were added to a D roster to play D worlds the next weekend. Moving D to the start of the event solves both of these issues.
Players really need to learn the rules. The number of outs missed because no one was watching the runners touch bases, pitcher's that can't keep their feet on the rubber, and first basemen that stand right in the baseline on a single to left field shocks me.

As an ump I see first basemen stand in the way and get run into all the time. They get pissy when I tell them they can't be in the runner's way.

I also see tons of pitchers that can't (or won't) pitch from the rubber. Again, they get pissy when I tell them they have to be on the rubber (this is ASA league).

You sound like a good ump. Doing 27 games of tourny ball and only have 2 ejections isn't bad.

 

[stang7222]

Yeah but they can hit a ball over 300' with juiced bats and balls so they don't care. Learning rules would be akin to taking structured BP to get better and working on fielding mechanics to ascend from the ranks of E.......simply put - not happening!

I can't even get the guys on my E team to show up an hour before a tournament to bp. Very frustrating stuff. I'd like to field a few ground balls before hand as well. Getting people out during the week, or over the winter...? My team is at least good about knowing the rules. We could use some situational awareness work though.

 

[EAJuggalo]

Question on the pitching while not on the rubber, how does that work? Do you just call a ball, and not say more unless they ask? Is it a dead ball if they swing, or swing at your own peril?

I always say, "Ball, unfairly delivered." If the pitcher or catcher ask me about it, I tell them what they are doing that is making it unfairly delivered. Where it gets a little sticky is in two man with no one on base. The base umpire has a better look at the rubber than the plate umpire does if the pitcher is actually in contact. What will happen is the base umpire will see the pitcher not on the rubber and put the delayed dead ball signal out. If the PU calls it a strike, the BU then calls time comes in and tells the PU what they saw. It then changes the pitch from a strike to a ball. Had it this weekend with a guy that was pitching with his knee on the rubber, well sometimes he was lifting the knee before release. One other one that was straddling the rubber but was close enough that my partner couldn't be sure from behind the plate. When I was in A it was pretty obvious.
If a batter swings at an unfairly delivered pitch, whatever happens, happens. Same as a pitch that's over the top or flat, same rule in fact.
You guys want a lot of free outs in tourney play? Assign someone to watch runners touch bases and make sure the batter goes to the orange bag on plays on the infield. Make those appeals and if the umpire denies them and you know you're right, call out the umpire to the UIC. I know the UIC in JBO's area harps on his guys every weekend to watch the runners touch bases. TWMcCoy, not your UIC but the guy that actually runs things is the same way. I worked with Silva this past weekend. At the D and E level, the players think it's league ball when they come to a big tourney. We play by the rules in Viera and we are always looking for free outs.

 

[ilyk2win]

As a P, I've been averaging 1+ free out per tourney on the orange bag vs white bag at 1B for the past 2 years. I educate every 1B on my teams what to do when there's a safe call and I'm yelling at them to tag the runner.

As an Umpire, I've been averaging 1.5 frustrations per game when defensive players don't pay attention to runners and appeal the free out for failure to touch the bag.

 

[EAJuggalo]

I did have to have a discussion with my partner at Viera about the importance of watching the runner first base. We get paid for 42 outs, let's take all of the free ones we can. Same reason I'm not shy about calling out of the box when a batter steps all the way in front of the plate.

 

[stang7222]

As an Umpire, I've been averaging 1.5 frustrations per game

So way less frustrating than pitching?

 

[jbo911]

I always say, "Ball, unfairly delivered." If the pitcher or catcher ask me about it, I tell them what they are doing that is making it unfairly delivered. Where it gets a little sticky is in two man with no one on base. The base umpire has a better look at the rubber than the plate umpire does if the pitcher is actually in contact. What will happen is the base umpire will see the pitcher not on the rubber and put the delayed dead ball signal out. If the PU calls it a strike, the BU then calls time comes in and tells the PU what they saw. It then changes the pitch from a strike to a ball. Had it this weekend with a guy that was pitching with his knee on the rubber, well sometimes he was lifting the knee before release. One other one that was straddling the rubber but was close enough that my partner couldn't be sure from behind the plate. When I was in A it was pretty obvious.
If a batter swings at an unfairly delivered pitch, whatever happens, happens. Same as a pitch that's over the top or flat, same rule in fact.
You guys want a lot of free outs in tourney play? Assign someone to watch runners touch bases and make sure the batter goes to the orange bag on plays on the infield. Make those appeals and if the umpire denies them and you know you're right, call out the umpire to the UIC. I know the UIC in JBO's area harps on his guys every weekend to watch the runners touch bases. TWMcCoy, not your UIC but the guy that actually runs things is the same way. I worked with Silva this past weekend. At the D and E level, the players think it's league ball when they come to a big tourney. We play by the rules in Viera and we are always looking for free outs.

I'll keep an eye out, but every time I call it sometime like that I get the "I didn't see it". After that when I watch, they do it right.