3GG or Double elim with Conso Bracket?

[Jbird11]

Which tourney format do you guys prefer?

I'm running a couple of local tourneys, and I'm having a debate with a few local guys right now as to which format they think is better. The standard double-elim tourneys around here aren't getting as many teams in them as they used to... and so I'm looking for ways to get more teams interested, and I thought the idea of a 3GG tourney might be a way to spark some more interest.

In case anyone wonders what a 3GG bracket looks like, click here:


They argue that the downside of a 3GG bracket is that a team that is 0-2 can still come back and win the tourney, and that's not fair to the teams that are 1-1, cuz they won a game.

I, on the other hand, would think that a team that is 1-1, would much rather play an 0-2 team than another 1-1 team... cuz theoretically, that 0-2 team is probably worse.

Conversely, I would think that an 0-2 team would much rather still have a shot at coming through the loser's bracket to play for it all than to just have an 0-2 consolation bracket, where you can play it off to win your entry fee back or some other consolation prize.

I think that a 3GG bracket also protects against those really tough draws, where you come up against 2 really good teams in your first couple games... in the 3GG format, you can then get paired up against other 0-2 teams or 1-1 teams and have a little better shot at winning a game or two.



Anyone have some good insight either way... would love some input from my SBF bros...

 

[Grip_&_Rip24]

I agree completely with your logic and concerns.. we played a 3gg into pool play.. went 3-0 in pool, won the playoff to go 4-0 then lost the championship to a team we previously beat.. I would think the best solution is go 3gg with a chance to double dip in the final.. meaning if a team runs the tourney and then loses in the final they should have to be beat 2x..

we used a recent 3gg to get our extra guys some playing time.. we knew the middle game didnt matter all too much and these guys could get a few extra cuts in while some of the regs took a break or whatnot..

 

[Jabroni21]

Also, for the money, 3gg sounds better then double elim..

 

[hitmachine44]

3GG is the WORST **** ever conceived.

 

[Delbert]

Double elim with a consoloation bracket...i hate it when you go undefeated than lose the first game of playoffs.

 

[Jbird11]

3GG is the WORST **** ever conceived.

Please explain why...

Double elim with a consoloation bracket...i hate it when you go undefeated than lose the first game of playoffs.

We're not talkin about pool play here... we're talking about a 3GG bracket...

http://softball247.com/Brackets/3Game/12.pdf

In a 12-team scenario like the link above... after 2 rounds of games, 4 teams are left undefeated in the Winners bracket, and 8 teams have either 1 or 2 losses in the losers bracket, and no one is eliminated.

The undefeated teams still have to lose 2 to be knocked out of the tourney, while it's basically a single elim for all 8 of the teams left in the LB....

 

[coolluvr4u1976]

two weeks ago I did a tourny it was 3games round robin then single elim brackets.... after the 3 games all of the teams were seeded by record / runs scored.... so even if you sucked it up during the RR play you still got a chance at redemption in the brackets....

 

[hitmachine44]

Please explain why...

Because teams that lose in the LOSER'S bracket should not still be in the ****ing tourney, and in some instances, those losing teams actually advance in the loser's bracket 1 or 2 rounds. If that isn't a bunch of bull**** I don't know what is.

 

[Witt]

^^what he said..

 

[Jbird11]

Because teams that lose in the LOSER'S bracket should not still be in the ****ing tourney, and in some instances, those losing teams actually advance in the loser's bracket 1 or 2 rounds. If that isn't a bunch of bull**** I don't know what is.

Yeah, ok, I understand the philosophy... and if teams truly thought like that, then I could only assume that they would only sign up to play Double Elim tourneys...

But, in this day and age, especially where I live... tourneys aren't getting very well attended by some of the lower level teams--and it seems that it's mainly because they don't wanna play against the big boys, so a new format is being tried out to see if we can draw some add'l teams into the tourney by giving them at least 3 games.

The question is, should it be done by a 3GG bracket, or by having the standard double elim with an 0-2 consolation bracket.


Please give answers as if you were the 0-2 team that isn't playing as many tourneys cuz you're tired of going 0-2

 

[Jabroni21]

Because teams that lose in the LOSER'S bracket should not still be in the ****ing tourney, and in some instances, those losing teams actually advance in the loser's bracket 1 or 2 rounds. If that isn't a bunch of bull**** I don't know what is.

Sounds like this guy lost to an 0-2 team being undefeated in a 3gg tourney or something....

 

[marshall]

Because teams that lose in the LOSER'S bracket should not still be in the ****ing tourney, and in some instances, those losing teams actually advance in the loser's bracket 1 or 2 rounds. If that isn't a bunch of bull**** I don't know what is.

This ^^. And also every 3GG tourney I've played in we end up with huge breaks in between games. Nothing is worse than playing a game, then a 3 hour break, a game, then another break. We played a couple weeks ago where we came up from the losers bracket and in the championship the game the winners bracket team said they had 7 hour break in between games.

 

[hitmachine44]

Sounds like this guy lost to an 0-2 team being undefeated in a 3gg tourney or something....

...or it could be that a local park here runs these exclusively and I've seen lots of weird **** occur with these goofy as brackets.

 

[CarlsbadDrew]

Yeah, ok, I understand the philosophy... and if teams truly thought like that, then I could only assume that they would only sign up to play Double Elim tourneys...

But, in this day and age, especially where I live... tourneys aren't getting very well attended by some of the lower level teams--and it seems that it's mainly because they don't wanna play against the big boys, so a new format is being tried out to see if we can draw some add'l teams into the tourney by giving them at least 3 games.

The question is, should it be done by a 3GG bracket, or by having the standard double elim with an 0-2 consolation bracket.


Please give answers as if you were the 0-2 team that isn't playing as many tourneys cuz you're tired of going 0-2

There's a format done around here sometimes that I really like.

3GG w/ double elim. Heres how it works:

-Game 1 for all teams doesn't count. It's a warmup game.

-High performing teams can choose to opt out of their warmup game and wait for seeding rounds to begin. Thus forfeiting their right to a guaranteed 3rd game.

-Game 2-3 are seeding games. Losses count towards double elim at this point.

-Qualifying teams move on to the playoff bracket.

-No losers bracket or lowers.


I think this format helps solves the dilemma of teams who really want to get as much game experience as possible, and yet doesn't slow the tourny down for the more competitive teams that are expected to do well.

 

[Jbird11]

Bump for more opinions...

 

[Jbird11]

Bump for more opinions...

This..........

 

[ilyk2win]

Just do what they do in NJ....have them play 2 meaningless games of round robin and say they are for seeding then go straight to single-elimination. There are a few less total games in the tournament, you get done earlier in the evening/night and as a director you make a lot more cash. Your profit to time spent ratio goes up significantly which is what it's all about right? I mean it is 2010.

In all seriousness, I advocated the straight double-elim 3GG format here (to no avail). Unless you have more than 16 teams, you are talking about 4 teams that lose their first 2 and still technically have a chance to win it all....but that chance is rather slim. It only comes out to about 2-3 more total tournament games than doing RR into single-elim.

 

[Jbird11]

There's NO WAY I'm ever doing pool play into Single elim.

In the 3GG bracket... the 8 first round losers bracket games are pretty pointless as far as your tourney life goes, but everything else matters...

 

[Jbird11]

Bump for thoughts.