So we run a lot of 5 man, as I think it is usually the better defense. What are peoples opinions on the 5 vs 4man? What are some situations where you should go 4man? Advantages of each? How do you run cuts? Who takes 2nd on the turn? Just wanted to start a general discussion on the 5man, and get some peoples insight, to help improve how and when we run it. Any lessons learned appreciated.
5man vs 4man
- Thread starter BSBR
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Redsfan
Well-Known Member
The teams I have played on since I've got back into the game in 2018 have all played 5 man. The only times we have switched back to a 4 man is when you play one of those teams that are just great at hitting the gaps in the OF. We do it to give them a different look and cut down on the doubles and triples. I go back and forth on which one I think is best. 5 man seems to give up more extra base hits. 4 man more singles. I think alot of it depends on your talent on which one is best. I've played against some teams that could have had all 10 guys on the IF and not stopped a grounder.
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
If you've got the outfielders, 5man is generally better. If you don't or you are up against a team killing the gaps a 4man works better. There is a reason 50 of the top 52 teams in the Conference run a 5man 90+% of the time. In my time as a Conference umpire I've seen a 4 man run maybe three times other than the Amish teams. And in each of those situations the team was getting killed in the gaps and down 10+.
Opponents in our rec league used a 5 man against us 4-6 times last season. It only "worked" once, but not because we hit the outfield gaps. The one time it "worked" was a game where we just hit the ball right at the fielders, both infield and outfield, and the 5th infielder really didn't affect that. It didn't work against us in the other games because they obviously hadn't practiced it. We beat it by (unintentionally) hitting grounders between the infielders, who just watched the ball go by rather than run into each other. Most of the teams that used it, did so to be trendy, or because their infielders had no range whatsoever, although they could/would/should have fielded the balls they watched go by in the 5 man had they been in a 4 man. Most of these teams didn't have the outfielders to make a 3 man outfield work.
The first time I played against a 5 man was years ago before it was a thing. It was a weird game that shouldn't have been played in the first place. Both teams were missing a lot of players. All but one of ours was on our roster, but we were missing several starters. I think I was hurt and played 1st instead of SS. At least half of the guys on the other team weren't on their roster. The SS and MI were ringers brought in from outside our league, and way better than anyone on their roster. On top of that, the field was so muddy, we shouldn't have been playing on it. The 3rd base line looked like a snake that was a good 3 feet from the innermost to outermost points due to the mud. It was hard to tell if the 5 man or the field was the bigger factor. We lost a close game, but I always thought my starters would have beaten that 5 man on a dry field.
The first time I played against a 5 man was years ago before it was a thing. It was a weird game that shouldn't have been played in the first place. Both teams were missing a lot of players. All but one of ours was on our roster, but we were missing several starters. I think I was hurt and played 1st instead of SS. At least half of the guys on the other team weren't on their roster. The SS and MI were ringers brought in from outside our league, and way better than anyone on their roster. On top of that, the field was so muddy, we shouldn't have been playing on it. The 3rd base line looked like a snake that was a good 3 feet from the innermost to outermost points due to the mud. It was hard to tell if the 5 man or the field was the bigger factor. We lost a close game, but I always thought my starters would have beaten that 5 man on a dry field.
rmp0012002
Addicted to Softballfans
It really depends if you have the legs in the outfield to cover the gaps using 3 outfields. It also depends if you’re playing a lesser team that can’t hit shots to the gaps and hit a lot of grounders.
the 5th man was called the short fielder. He was a rover that played in the infield, fourth outfielder or played in between the infield and outfield (short field) depending on the hitters coming up.
the 5th man was called the short fielder. He was a rover that played in the infield, fourth outfielder or played in between the infield and outfield (short field) depending on the hitters coming up.
Redsfan
Well-Known Member
I also forgot to mention the size of the field determines which one we play. On standard 300 foot fields we play 5 man. Our one fall league is played on a semi pro baseball field and there we play 4 man. It's almost the dimensions of a MLB field so it makes it real difficult even with 3 good OF's.
dunkky
Well-Known Member
if your OFs have legs and your opponent is constantly hitting middle ground balls. i'll put one extra man in the middle little deep.
only those two combination, i'll put 5 man. conference is different story. those center fields flat out can race and cover a lot of grounds. you don't see that type of talent often.
only those two combination, i'll put 5 man. conference is different story. those center fields flat out can race and cover a lot of grounds. you don't see that type of talent often.
Big outfields definitely are a factor. We have fields that are around 330 to the gaps, but 270 down the lines and like 310 to center. It's always tough to decide what to do there. Rf and Lf are small, but cf is huge. Usually play the 5 still and outfielders give a little more line to cover the gaps, and a lot of hrs for outs happen down the lines
I would guess analytics would tell you the 5 man is superior to the 4 man
unless the team, rules dimensions or conditions sway you, like Vegas, it will prevail in the long run
Fast outfielders that like to dive, climb fences and hit the bag on a line are important to close the gaps.
communication in the infield is key before and during the play. stagger the depth just a bit with the 5 man this can help with both colliding by on the same path to the ball.
we have SS cutoff LF, 5man cut off CF and 2nd base cutoff RF if everyone is playing close to standard areas. But constant talk on who takes the bag, who takes the cut, etc helps immensely.
with that being said playing to your strengths is a big consideration.
If you look at it like a 3-4 or 4-3 defense in football the line and linebackers have different skill sets typical to building the right INF/OF in softball for either style.
unless the team, rules dimensions or conditions sway you, like Vegas, it will prevail in the long run
Fast outfielders that like to dive, climb fences and hit the bag on a line are important to close the gaps.
communication in the infield is key before and during the play. stagger the depth just a bit with the 5 man this can help with both colliding by on the same path to the ball.
we have SS cutoff LF, 5man cut off CF and 2nd base cutoff RF if everyone is playing close to standard areas. But constant talk on who takes the bag, who takes the cut, etc helps immensely.
with that being said playing to your strengths is a big consideration.
If you look at it like a 3-4 or 4-3 defense in football the line and linebackers have different skill sets typical to building the right INF/OF in softball for either style.
rmp0012002
Addicted to Softballfans
As an outfielder I liked to run and track balls down, having a fourth outfield makes you worry about collisions. Ten years ago I could still run like that but now at 53 I could never cover that ground. I would try like hell but my body wouldn’t be happy with me afterwards.