Other Appeal Play?

[TexasTransplant]

Senior ball with 5 run per inning limit. Runner on 3rd. Two outs. Batter hits what would be a clean single. Runner from 3rd crosses the scoring line with what would be the 5th run. Batter goes straight to the dugout without touching 1B. After discussion with defensive coach, umpire calls the runner out (3rd out) and disallows the run.

Is this the correct call?

Is this an appeal play?

If an appeal play, does that make it a timing play with regard to whether the run scores or not?

 

[ureout]

Senior ball with 5 run per inning limit. Runner on 3rd. Two outs. Batter hits what would be a clean single. Runner from 3rd crosses the scoring line with what would be the 5th run. Batter goes straight to the dugout without touching 1B. After discussion with defensive coach, umpire calls the runner out (3rd out) and disallows the run.

Is this the correct call?

Is this an appeal play?

If an appeal play, does that make it a timing play with regard to whether the run scores or not?

yes.... any runner that is "forced" to advance as in B/R to 1st must touch the succeeding bag or is in jeopardy to be called out upon appeal....and if it is the 3rd out no run shall score

 

[EAJuggalo]

In USSSA this would be the correct call, the Batter-Runner is out as soon as they enter dead ball territory. In this case the dugout. Since the third out of the inning was the Batter-Runner before reaching first base no runs can score. It is not an appeal play, it should be an automatic call by the umpire.

 

[ureout]

In USSSA this would be the correct call, the Batter-Runner is out as soon as they enter dead ball territory. In this case the dugout. Since the third out of the inning was the Batter-Runner before reaching first base no runs can score. It is not an appeal play, it should be an automatic call by the umpire.

EA I disagree with you on it not being an appeal play....any runner is assumed to have touched the base that they are going to...change the scenario what if there was a runner on 1st base also who failed to advance to 2nd... but B/R touched 1st....would you wait for the runner that didn't touch 2nd to enter the dugout and call him out and disallow the run? this also would be an appeal play

 

[BretMan]

If a runner enters a dead ball area during a live ball they are out by rule. No need to have an appeal, because they're already out.

Would you treat it the same way if it was a runner going from first to second base? You would have to. But that's only going to come up on plays where the offense hits the five-run limit and there are still base runners with less than two outs. The league bastardizing the run rules creates this unusual situation.

Since "five runs per inning" isn't an official rule, adopting it can have unintended consequences. Maybe the league should change it so that when the fifth run scores the ball becomes dead and runners no longer need to advance. Otherwise, you will run into this oddball "force out/appeal/runners leaving field" many times during the season and it's likely to cause some problems.

 

[TexasTransplant]

If a runner enters a dead ball area during a live ball they are out by rule. No need to have an appeal, because they're already out.

Would you treat it the same way if it was a runner going from first to second base? You would have to. But that's only going to come up on plays where the offense hits the five-run limit and there are still base runners with less than two outs. The league bastardizing the run rules creates this unusual situation.

Since "five runs per inning" isn't an official rule, adopting it can have unintended consequences. Maybe the league should change it so that when the fifth run scores the ball becomes dead and runners no longer need to advance. Otherwise, you will run into this oddball "force out/appeal/runners leaving field" many times during the season and it's likely to cause some problems.

Understand your explanation and agree with your comment about bastardizing the rules, but this isn't a local league situation. Both the major senior organizations, SSUSA and SPA use the 5 run rule.

 

[EAJuggalo]

EA I disagree with you on it not being an appeal play....any runner is assumed to have touched the base that they are going to...change the scenario what if there was a runner on 1st base also who failed to advance to 2nd... but B/R touched 1st....would you wait for the runner that didn't touch 2nd to enter the dugout and call him out and disallow the run? this also would be an appeal play

No, any runner is assumed to have touched any base they have passed, not any base they are going to. If the B/R had run passed the base without touching it then entered the dugout it would be an appeal play that must be made before all infielders leave fair territory.

Rule 8-4-H:

When, after hitting a fair ball, and while the ball is still live, the batter-runner
goes into dead ball territory.

And rule 8-5-Q:

When a base runner fails to attempt to advance and goes into dead ball territory.

And finally Rule 4-6-A and B:

A RUN SHALL NOT BE SCORED if the third out of an inning is the result of:
A. The batter-runner being put out legally before touching first base.
B. A base runner forced out at any base.