Bat Tech: Old School vs New...and does it really matter?

Captainobvious

Addicted to Softballfans
It's been a long time since I have posted and a long time since I've played (10+ years!!) I was playing ASA/rec leagues and swinging things like the old Mizuno Techfire Crush MZC4, Fury, Freak98 and Worth EST max. With social media there seems to have been an explosion of new brands and reviews and it kind of makes your head spin. Is newer bat "tech" actually superior to the old stuff? I mean, they were banning bats for being too hot even back then so how much more can you do? Has the line moved for what is allowed? Does newer bat tech "measure" better within those lines but actually perform better in other ways (larger sweet spots, durability, etc)? I'd love to get some feedback/opinions from you guys who used to swing the old school greats and have experience with the newer stuff out.

Thanks
 

Protectyaneck

Active Member
IMO, the biggest difference is break in period, which is directly proportional to durability. You can game a modern bat out of the wrapper, while 15 years ago most would agree thats unthinkable.

The .52 cor ball is the great equalizer. Its true some bats hit it better than others, but that ball really only reward you if you focus on technique.
 

ShortYellowBus

Well-Known Member
It depends on your swing. If you’re a guy who works hard on your craft and you have an upper tier swing, skip the non-linear bats.

Pure bat company did a collaboration with Monsta and they produced a non-linear turd bat that was universally recognized as the worst bat idea ever. For a good hitter, USSSA bats are linear bats and outperform ASA non-linear bats. For bad hitters, it’s the other way around.

Why are Monsta’s so popular.

Monsta came out with lightweight composite bats that were easy to swing and were $90 cheaper than the bigger brands. That’s just cheap people who don’t have all the information and proclaiming the perception of superior performance, which of course is subjective: your results will vary.
 

blakcherry329

Well-Known Member
IMO...
The older bats were made for the harder balls so the .52/300s don't give you the same jump off the bat as bats built with .52/300s in mind. By the same token when you hit harder balls with todays bats, they feel like Ultra II's because of how the ball jumps off the bat. (I also wouldn't recommend doing that too often;)) I would say an Easton Flex or Extended with 2K hits on it might be closer to todays bats, but I still think today's bats win.
 

Protectyaneck

Active Member
IMO...
The older bats were made for the harder balls so the .52/300s don't give you the same jump off the bat as bats built with .52/300s in mind. By the same token when you hit harder balls with todays bats, they feel like Ultra II's because of how the ball jumps off the bat. (I also wouldn't recommend doing that too often;)) I would say an Easton Flex or Extended with 2K hits on it might be closer to todays bats, but I still think today's bats win.
I would tend to agree, only because the new bats break in much faster than the older stuff. They simply get hotter really quickly.

I have a teammate who’s bought one bat since 2013, an Easton L6. That thing has 10k+ hits on it, and goes toe to toe with ANYTHING, regardless of the ball or batter. But it’s tough to find anybody who’ll work and dedicate that number of swings to a single stick these days.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
It depends on your swing. If you’re a guy who works hard on your craft and you have an upper tier swing, skip the non-linear bats.

Pure bat company did a collaboration with Monsta and they produced a non-linear turd bat that was universally recognized as the worst bat idea ever. For a good hitter, USSSA bats are linear bats and outperform ASA non-linear bats. For bad hitters, it’s the other way around.

Why are Monsta’s so popular.

Monsta came out with lightweight composite bats that were easy to swing and were $90 cheaper than the bigger brands. That’s just cheap people who don’t have all the information and proclaiming the perception of superior performance, which of course is subjective: your results will vary.
I agree with all of this.

Call me crazy, but I prefer older bat technology. Stuff like CNT, IMX, whatever. I want a bat that starts out stiff and takes a long time to break in. I still swing a bunch of older 220 bats in USSSA, while many other people swing the fragile, newer stuff. Many guys I know keep having 240 bats fail with well less than 100 swings on them.

I'm simply not a fan of newer technology bats. They cater to people with no bat speed, and the bats aren't built to last at all. They're f'ing junk.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I would tend to agree, only because the new bats break in much faster than the older stuff. They simply get hotter really quickly.

I have a teammate who’s bought one bat since 2013, an Easton L6. That thing has 10k+ hits on it, and goes toe to toe with ANYTHING, regardless of the ball or batter. But it’s tough to find anybody who’ll work and dedicate that number of swings to a single stick these days.
The L6 is a good, underrated old bat. They last forever, and will get really hot over time. They even hit .52 300s very well.
 

D-ROCK13

Well-Known Member
In my opinion, guys with lots of power and good mechanics benefit from older tech/stiffer barrels. I think it takes more power to flex the sweetspot fully. Especially compared to non linear tech. Anyone can hit hard with a soft barrel testing at the pass/fail line, takes a decent hitter to do the same with an old imx easton out of the wrapper or even more so with a cheap alloy single wall
 

trippy1313

Starting Player
That's pretty much my understanding... if you have good bat speed and can keep power behind it, linear will likely benefit you better, but if you're slower, weaker or tend to have mis-swings then non-linear would probably be better.
 

Protectyaneck

Active Member
A power hitter isn't gaining anything with a non-linear bat...but they're not losing anything either. Linear, non-linear, that type of hitter is gonna go 325+ regardless of the kind of bat. The benefit they get is a faster break in.

The weaker, less experienced rec player is the one who MIGHT gain distance and exit velo from new bat tech. But if youre not a power hitter with a linear bat, youre not turning into Vlad Guerrero with a non linear bat.

Swing whatever feels good in your hands.
 

jhitman

Well-Known Member
It's been a long time since I have posted and a long time since I've played (10+ years!!) I was playing ASA/rec leagues and swinging things like the old Mizuno Techfire Crush MZC4, Fury, Freak98 and Worth EST max. With social media there seems to have been an explosion of new brands and reviews and it kind of makes your head spin. Is newer bat "tech" actually superior to the old stuff? I mean, they were banning bats for being too hot even back then so how much more can you do? Has the line moved for what is allowed? Does newer bat tech "measure" better within those lines but actually perform better in other ways (larger sweet spots, durability, etc)? I'd love to get some feedback/opinions from you guys who used to swing the old school greats and have experience with the newer stuff out.

Thanks

Here's what I believe to be true when it comes to your questions. Back 10+ years ago we had very similar bats to what they are making now. The difference is that we were playing with harder softballs. We either had 44 375 comp or 47 525 comps. The balls would trampoline off the higher quality bats like the Ultra's. Freaks etc. Here in Maryland, we have been playing with the 52 cor 300 comp (mush balls) for about 10 years now. In my opinion, the old bats that were made specifically to trampoline the ball and most of the current USSSA bats of today still have that trampoline effect if you are using 44 cor 375 comps or better. If you are in an ASA league playing with the mush balls, your best bet is to find ASA/USA bats that are specifically designed to hit the lower comp softballs. Although fairly close in performance, I find that the ASA bats do hit the mush balls a little better. I really don't like the 52 cor 300 comp softballs, but the one benefit that I see is, you can keep your bats longer as there is way less breakage than back in the day.
 

sscroggin

Yada Yada Yada
It depends on your swing. If you’re a guy who works hard on your craft and you have an upper tier swing, skip the non-linear bats.

Pure bat company did a collaboration with Monsta and they produced a non-linear turd bat that was universally recognized as the worst bat idea ever. For a good hitter, USSSA bats are linear bats and outperform ASA non-linear bats. For bad hitters, it’s the other way around.

Why are Monsta’s so popular.

Monsta came out with lightweight composite bats that were easy to swing and were $90 cheaper than the bigger brands. That’s just cheap people who don’t have all the information and proclaiming the perception of superior performance, which of course is subjective: your results will vary.
This video would say otherwise. I'll make up a statistical number that 95% softball players don't swing as hard as this guy either.

 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Exactly. Vet few people swing hard enough to reach that level of diminishing returns.

That being said, your own comfort level is even more important. I have the APG, the 220, and I don't swing it because I don't like the ss location. It's probably the hottest bat I own, but I hit much better with other bats so it doesn't matter.

If a bat is so broken we're all going to hit it better than everything else, ultra/lady virus/etc, were all going to know it and it will also get banned eventually. Just find what's most comfortable for you in your situation.
 
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ShortYellowBus

Well-Known Member
This video would say otherwise. I'll make up a statistical number that 95% softball players don't swing as hard as this guy either.

Don’t get your information from people trying to sell you a bat.

I’ve seen other videos from these “bros” where they compare the “hottest” bats, and they actually say out loud that Monsta bats perform best with an 80% swing.

“Bros” rep for HB. Knowing that, also know they spent the last two years telling you the Mad Hatter HB exclusive was the hottest ASA bat.

Your results will vary, since not everyone has the same “hottest” bat opinion.

Thank you for doing your own research by the way.
 

sscroggin

Yada Yada Yada
Don't you think you hit better only swinging 80% as opposed to out of your shoes every swing? His only swing that wasn't out of his shoes was the first one.

It was my understanding that they are not a bat reps. I'm probably naive but their links send you to just bats and other company sites off of their website. I know bphero is a HB rep. He has zero credibility.

How would you explain the hittrax exit velo? Unless he's using dead balls with the genny. But i understand your point, if he is a rep, follow the money and you'll find the bias.

I love making up statistical numbers to help prove my point.😆

I miss this site. I miss this discussion about softball with fellow players. Facebook can lick my balls.
 

BigWhiffa

Underwear Researcher
I have an OG freak + that is well broke in and a Freak 98 that is well broken in and rolled. Neither one of them are even close to when it comes to new technology hitting asa balls. compared to a 5 yr old legit and the bats in the sig below.
 
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