Any Does the Run Count?

Will B

DeMarini Nation
A buddy of mine was telling me about a situation in his game the other night, and it didn't sound right to me. Let me get your opinions.

Bases loaded, 2 out and a ground ball was hit to 3rd, which he bobbled. He recovered the ball, beat the runner coming from 2nd and touched 3rd for the final out, but before he touched 3rd the runner from 3rd crossed the plate. He said, the umpire said the run counts because of the "timing" and the only "true" force was at 1st and not at any other base.

Now he belives that is the rule, and I disagree 100%, that run should not have counted.
 

surf24

ADDICTED TO SOMETHING NEW
wrong call.....if bases were loaded there were "forces" at all bags plus homeplate.........no wonder umpires get such bad reps

and NO the run would NOT count
 

Will B

DeMarini Nation
This is from the utrip rule book:

Sec. 5. ONE RUN SHALL BE SCORED each time a base runner legally touches first, second, third and home bases before the third out of an inning, unless the third out is the result of a force out or the batter-runner is out before reaching first base. Base runners may advance and a run may score only on a legally batted ball, on a play, on an overthrow or on an error resulting from plays that started with, and immediately follow the batted ball or when the bases are full, so that runners are forced to move up, or advance, by reason of the batter being awarded first base by the umpire in accordance with these rules.

Sec. 6. A RUN SHALL NOT BE SCORED if the third out of an inning is the result
of:
A. The batter-runner being put out legally before touching first base.
B. A base runner forced out at any base.
C. A base runner being called out for leaving a base too soon on a pitched
ball.
D. A preceding base runner being called out for failure to touch a base.
E. The batter-runner being called out for carrying his bat to first base or beyond.
 

hookumsnivy

Addicted to Softballfans
He gives umps a bad name. He should be required to read the rule books and start watching baseball/softball because it's obvious he doesn't watch it now. It's a BASIC rule. Little Leaguers know this one.
 

chiefgator

Crafty Veteran
The trouble with these situations is that the actual circumstances are rarely relayed exactly as they happened.
The only reason I brought that up is that rule one of the very basic rules that is rarely goofed up.

If it happened as you said, it is a force, no run scores.
 

Will B

DeMarini Nation
The trouble with these situations is that the actual circumstances are rarely relayed exactly as they happened.
The only reason I brought that up is that rule one of the very basic rules that is rarely goofed up.

If it happened as you said, it is a force, no run scores.

I wasn't there, I was just relying on what he said. The only way the run would have counted in that situation is if the 3B tagged the runner going to 3rd and the run crossed the plate before the tag.
 

hookumsnivy

Addicted to Softballfans
I wasn't there, I was just relying on what he said. The only way the run would have counted in that situation is if the 3B tagged the runner going to 3rd and the run crossed the plate before the tag.

3B tagging the runner doesn't change anything unless the runner already touched the base (so he isn't considered forced anymore) and was tagged while not touching the base. If a forced runner is put out in any manner, the run doesn't count.
 

baldgriff

Lead Oompah Loompah....
Seriously, where do people come up with these terms "true force" or make this a "timing" play? As a player and an umpire I find it absolutely frustrating that people screw up the most basic of rules. I understand how there could be confusion on application of rules in weird circumstances or weird plays. BUT for goodness sakes how can anyone get this one wrong.

If you were playing in the game, you should have immediately indicated that the game is being played under protest. The other team knows they were given a gift. If you didnt, I would still contact the LD or UIC and notify them of this problem. This is as basic as it gets.
 

chiefgator

Crafty Veteran
I wasn't there, I was just relying on what he said. The only way the run would have counted in that situation is if the 3B tagged the runner going to 3rd and the run crossed the plate before the tag.

Only if the runner was not Forced to go to third. No difference in tagging the runner or the bag with regards to a force.

Because you are going on second hand info, your friend may have Roger Clemens disease... he may have misremembered the exact situation.:D

Let's say the situation is only 2nd and 3rd with 2 out. Now it is all about a timing play when R2 is out at 3rd.
 

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
Seriously, where do people come up with these terms "true force" or make this a "timing" play? .


These terms don't apply here but they do have merit.

An example of a timing play is when a runner doesn't tag up (or leaves early) on a caught fly ball. If the ball is thrown back to the bag he left, it's not a force but a timimg play and any run(s) scored before he was put out, would count.

It's not a "true force" because he was not being forced to advance to the next base.
 

AWall13

Addicted to Softballfans
Terrible call. Sick of umps who collect their money but dont know the rules well enough to manage the game. We had a guy get tossed saturday because the ump blatantly came out and said "i dont know the rules of this league". Our pitcher said you should if youre going to umpire this league. He tossed him for unsportsmanlike conduct:confused::confused::confused:
 

xLongBallx

I may have a problem.....
He gives umps a bad name. He should be required to read the rule books and start watching baseball/softball because it's obvious he doesn't watch it now. It's a BASIC rule. Little Leaguers know this one.

Just not jim joyce ban him from those tapes :)
 

chiefgator

Crafty Veteran
I understand how there could be confusion on application of rules in weird circumstances or weird plays. BUT for goodness sakes how can anyone get this one wrong.

I agree 100%. That is why I am hesitant to blast the blue here. I really do not see how he could have gotten this wrong and there be no protest filed. This is a very basic rule.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
I agree 100%. That is why I am hesitant to blast the blue here. I really do not see how he could have gotten this wrong and there be no protest filed. This is a very basic rule.

From everything I've heard on this board, everything's a "basic rule" these days. :rolleyes: :D
 
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