ASA donuts on end of bats

One reason why I didn't want to use the cop analogy - the 4th Amendment doesn't help you on the softball field. That's for LEOs.

I'm not a LEO.

I'm an umpire.

What's in the bag, son? :D

my used condoms,ya wanna check them :eek: :eek: :p :D

yes your not a LEO,but a bunch think they are,and that grates me to no end.your presumes to be innocent,until found/proved guilty.plus if my bats are with me,no one can break into my vehicle and steal them,yes it happens here in north texas,sadly,ask vfracer.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
my used condoms,ya wanna check them :eek: :eek: :p :D

They look chewed...

yes your not a LEO,but a bunch think they are,and that grates me to no end.your presumes to be innocent,until found/proved guilty.plus if my bats are with me,no one can break into my vehicle and steal them,yes it happens here in north texas,sadly,ask vfracer.

I'd at least want to check the bats to see them for myself. If I spot a bat that's not supposed to be there, I can at least make a mental note of what to look for. Personally, I couldn't care less if someone has an Ultra II in their bag, so long as they understand that that's where it must remain.
 
They look chewed...

and why did you chew them :eek: :eek: :p



I'd at least want to check the bats to see them for myself. If I spot a bat that's not supposed to be there, I can at least make a mental note of what to look for. Personally, I couldn't care less if someone has an Ultra II in their bag, so long as they understand that that's where it must remain.

i would be ok with that,and maybe it is something that should be done all the time,if you have the time.i carry (like i said)up to 8 bats at times,some teams i'm their only supply of good bats to use,:rolleyes: damn little moochers.:eek:

to be real about it,about the only time i don't have multiple assoc bats in my bag is when i play senior tourney ball,but still will have 6 of them with me,hey they break easy and don't want to be running back and forth to the truck to get more.also have just started using a different weight to see if i can get used to it.
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
One reason why I didn't want to use the cop analogy - the 4th Amendment doesn't help you on the softball field. That's for LEOs.

Well, it wasn't either one of use who used the cop analogy. But it really doesn't make any difference, the medium isn't the difference. It could be the airport, a contractor going onto a military base, yada, yada, yada.

The point is that you know the rules and yet choose to bring something you are not suppose to have.

"But I play in X number of other leagues" whine is weak. You are supposed to be a responsible adult, act like it.

And I'm not "good" with a promise it stays in the bag. I don't know how many times I have DQd a bat or illegal warm up piece and find someone else
swinging it later on. Just like giving the ground rules, you hope that individual is smart enough to share with his/her teammates. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen and it is the same when you throw out a bat.
 

BLAR13

Addicted to Softballfans
Absolutely. The code I cited referred to search for a bat, not rifling through someone's bag. I don't suggest anyone go into someone else's bag without them present or with their permission. After all, who knows what that crazy a** may have in there :eek:

I was at Modified Nationals in 2003 I think in Marrrieta, GA and while warming up the umpires said we need to see the bats. This was the year ASA first started banning bats. I knew the banned list forwards and backwards so my black est stayed in the bag. While out warming up 1 weasel ump decided to go through my bag and pulled out my bat and took it. After seeing it and letting the umps know I knew it was banned it would not come out I knew the rules he took it. After finishing a 10 hour day of ball we finished 5th and had a few pops and left for the hotel. Crap I forgot to get my bat that shouldn't have been taken by the umpire who took my bat to prevent me from walking on the field with it. Well thanks ASA stole my bat.
That is why I think it is BS
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
I was at Modified Nationals in 2003 I think in Marrrieta, GA and while warming up the umpires said we need to see the bats. This was the year ASA first started banning bats. I knew the banned list forwards and backwards so my black est stayed in the bag.

So you knowingly travelled 800 miles to a tournament with a bat you knew wasn't supposed to be there and you could not use. DMP.

While out warming up 1 weasel ump decided to go through my bag and pulled out my bat and took it.

Proper result, wrong way to come to it.

After seeing it and letting the umps know I knew it was banned it would not come out I knew the rules he took it.

Again, the proper reaction. And on top of that, you told them how dumb you were. I don't know an umpire, especially at a national that would not have taken it.


After finishing a 10 hour day of ball we finished 5th and had a few pops and left for the hotel. Crap I forgot to get my bat that shouldn't have been taken by the umpire who took my bat to prevent me from walking on the field with it. Well thanks ASA stole my bat.
That is why I think it is BS

No one stole anything. YOU forgot to get an illegal bat that shouldn't have been there to begin. The only BS here is the fact that you think you were in the right. Again, DMP.
 
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NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Well, it wasn't either one of use who used the cop analogy. But it really doesn't make any difference, the medium isn't the difference. It could be the airport, a contractor going onto a military base, yada, yada, yada.

The point is that you know the rules and yet choose to bring something you are not suppose to have.

"But I play in X number of other leagues" whine is weak. You are supposed to be a responsible adult, act like it.

And I'm not "good" with a promise it stays in the bag. I don't know how many times I have DQd a bat or illegal warm up piece and find someone else
swinging it later on. Just like giving the ground rules, you hope that individual is smart enough to share with his/her teammates. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen and it is the same when you throw out a bat.

Well, then that's on them. I've already told them to put it up. Not my problem anymore.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
I was at Modified Nationals in 2003 I think in Marrrieta, GA and while warming up the umpires said we need to see the bats. This was the year ASA first started banning bats. I knew the banned list forwards and backwards so my black est stayed in the bag. While out warming up 1 weasel ump decided to go through my bag and pulled out my bat and took it. After seeing it and letting the umps know I knew it was banned it would not come out I knew the rules he took it. After finishing a 10 hour day of ball we finished 5th and had a few pops and left for the hotel. Crap I forgot to get my bat that shouldn't have been taken by the umpire who took my bat to prevent me from walking on the field with it. Well thanks ASA stole my bat.
That is why I think it is BS

What's the difference between this and a player bringing out a USSSA stick and having it confiscated? Either way, YOU knew where it was, and YOU didn't claim it.

For someone who "knew the banned list forwards and backwards," that was a pretty dumb move on your part.
 

BLAR13

Addicted to Softballfans
The list came out right before the tournament and the list was given to Managers at the managers meeting.

I am not dumb I do not cheat never have never will. I will never swing a rolled bat or try and sneak in a non-approved bat. I repect the game to much. Umpires need to have enough respect for those of us who follow the rules to treat us with the respect we deserve. You expect it as an umpire why don't I deserve it as an honest player.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
The list came out right before the tournament and the list was given to Managers at the managers meeting.

I am not dumb I do not cheat never have never will. I will never swing a rolled bat or try and sneak in a non-approved bat. I repect the game to much. Umpires need to have enough respect for those of us who follow the rules to treat us with the respect we deserve. You expect it as an umpire why don't I deserve it as an honest player.

No one's accusing you of cheating. We're accusing you of being forgetful. You knew where your bat was and why it was there, yet you forgot to pick it up.

Let me reiterate. YOU forgot to pick it up.
 

BLAR13

Addicted to Softballfans
I know they didn't steal my bat. I know I left the bat. But if that umpire didn't take it upon himself to search bags the situation wouldn't of happened. I accept I forgot the bat ASA should not have took it.

Again I am not dumb the list was given out at the managers meeting and I never fathomed that I would be a part of an illegal search and seizure of my property. So there was no reason for me to leave my bat at the hotel.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
I know they didn't steal my bat. I know I left the bat. But if that umpire didn't take it upon himself to search bags the situation wouldn't of happened. I accept I forgot the bat ASA should not have took it.

Again I am not dumb the list was given out at the managers meeting and I never fathomed that I would be a part of an illegal search and seizure of my property. So there was no reason for me to leave my bat at the hotel.

Oh boy... When will you get it that umpires are not cops? Your 4th Amendment rights do not apply, son.

You arrived at an ASA-sanctioned tourney. You brought the bat. You were told that bats would be checked. You left the bat in your bag. You SAW the bat get removed, and you KNEW where it would be kept. You failed to pick it up.

You failed to pick it up.

"Illegal search and seizure?" Give me a break.

Take responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming the umpire for doing his/her job.
 

johnsonrod

Starting Player
just playing devils advocate, lets say blar13 story took place at a league game, the ump went through the guys bag and took the non asa bat. why would this not be stealing? if blar13 called the police, why wouldnt they arrest the ump?

is there a rule that says the umps can take non asa bats?
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
just playing devils advocate, lets say blar13 story took place at a league game, the ump went through the guys bag and took the non asa bat. why would this not be stealing? if blar13 called the police, why wouldnt they arrest the ump?

is there a rule that says the umps can take non asa bats?

Why does everything have to be a "rule?" Just curious as to this "show me the rule" mentality.

Leagues are, and always will be, a completely different matter. I wouldn't go into a bag on my own - I'd make the player do it for me.

There's no possible way for me to account for every possible scenario in which a bat is confiscated, nor am I a lawyer. This is a question for lawyers, not umpires.
 

rotogrip300

Addicted to Softballfans
Why does everything have to be a "rule?" Just curious as to this "show me the rule" mentality.

Leagues are, and always will be, a completely different matter. I wouldn't go into a bag on my own - I'd make the player do it for me.

There's no possible way for me to account for every possible scenario in which a bat is confiscated, nor am I a lawyer. This is a question for lawyers, not umpires.

So are you even a bigger prick on the field of just kind of like the one in which you sound like on this forum?
 

BLAR13

Addicted to Softballfans
No you just enforce rules the way you interpret them with no accountability if you are right or wrong. When I say you I am not calling out NCAsa I do not know him but we all have had the ump who didn't know what he was talking about.

For the record I was not told don't bring them to the field. I was told do not use this banned piece of equipment under penalty of an out and ejection. No one said leave them in the car leave them in your hotel and there were no roadblocks on I94 searching for banned bats. Since this was the first National bats were banned it was new to people umps and players both. So when the bats were asked for I knew to leave my bat in the bag cause it was not to be used. I followed the rules and still the bat was taken. By the way this was the 4th game we played and the second day of the tournament So why all the sudden should I be concerned that a bag would be opened and equipment taken? 1 umpire who interpreted the rules the way he wanted decided to enforce the rule his way.
 
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NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
No you just enforce rules the way you interpret them with no accountability if you are right or wrong. When I say you I am not calling out NCAsa I do not know him but we all have had the ump who didn't know what he was taping about.

I completely disagree with this statement. If anything, umpires at Nationals are scrutinized MUCH more heavily than any other umpire at any other softball tournament. I've seen umpires get reamed for something as "minor" as popping their chewing gum on the field.

That being said, if something doesn't sit well with you on the field, talk with the Tournament Director or the UIC. Get the word straight from the source. It's your property, not ours, and you should have some reassurances that you will get it back.

Trust me, there's accountability.

For the record I was not told don't bring them to the field. I was told do not use this banned piece of equipment under penalty of an out and ejection. No one said leave them in the car leave them in your hotel and there were no roadblocks on I94 searching for banned bats. Since this was the first National bats were banned it was new to people umps and players both. So when the bats were asked for I knew to leave my bat in the bag cause it was not to be used. I followed the rules and still the bat was taken. By the way this was the 4th game we played and the second day of the tournament So why all the sudden should I be concerned that a bag would be opened and equipment taken? 1 umpire who interpreted the rules the way he wanted decided to enforce the rule his way.

I remember these days very well, and let's be honest - it was a bit of a mess. Procedures were still unclear, and it was a period of adjustment for all of us. Anytime you have big changes, there will always be bumps in the road, and that's to be expected. Even now, there's still some variance in how the bat rules are enforced, and ASA is no exception to this. USSSA tourneys have the same inconsistencies, as do NSA tourneys and so on.

So again, if there are concerns, talk with the TD, Player Rep or UIC. Let your concerns be known. These tournaments are not for us, they're for YOU. If you're not happy, you'll go elsewhere, and the problem isn't solved.

So tell us why you're unhappy, and let us know how we can fix it. Maybe better communication between the Tourney organizers and the players/managers? Maybe better explanations of what the expectations are at tourneys? Maybe we umpires need clearer directions from the UICs? Maybe something I haven't thought of?

I think you'd be surprised at just how receptive ASA is to your concerns if you put together a clear, concise statement to them regarding how things can be made better. I know for a fact that others here have done just that, and we've seen the resulting changes.
 
why are the players presume guilty without a trial,i bring out for the ump to see/inspect only the bats i will use,they'll be legal for the assoc i'm playing in,so stay the hell out of my bag,its not yours,its mine.i don't go into your umpire bag/pockets or anything searching.if your as good as you say you are, you'll be able to spot the players bat that are trying to get over on you.if you unsure all it takes a few seconds to look at the bat for a stamp.:rolleyes:
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
why are the players presume guilty without a trial,i bring out for the ump to see/inspect only the bats i will use,they'll be legal for the assoc i'm playing in,so stay the hell out of my bag,its not yours,its mine.i don't go into your umpire bag/pockets or anything searching.if your as good as you say you are, you'll be able to spot the players bat that are trying to get over on you.if you unsure all it takes a few seconds to look at the bat for a stamp.:rolleyes:

That's because my chapstick or plate brush have yet to kill anyone. :D

But seriously, it's the cheaters who are spoiling this sport. This is just another unfortunate symptom.
 

Fin09

Addicted to Softballfans
Personally, I wouldn't go into a player's bag, but there's always one guy who keeps the bat he's going to try and use in his bag while all the legal bats are being looked at, and then brings it to the plate and tries to tell me I approved it.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Personally, I wouldn't go into a player's bag, but there's always one guy who keeps the bat he's going to try and use in his bag while all the legal bats are being looked at, and then brings it to the plate and tries to tell me I approved it.

^^^^^

THIS! Thank you!
 
Personally, I wouldn't go into a player's bag, but there's always one guy who keeps the bat he's going to try and use in his bag while all the legal bats are being looked at, and then brings it to the plate and tries to tell me I approved it.

yes there will be,but at that point you would tell him to put it back,or face the out and ejection from the game if it isn't a legal bat for that assoc's play,what is so hard about that.

or you could be a real richard and wait for him to step into the box and just toss him,but in this case he will have deserved it for trying to cheat.
 

BLAR13

Addicted to Softballfans
yes there will be,but at that point you would tell him to put it back,or face the out and ejection from the game if it isn't a legal bat for that assoc's play,what is so hard about that.

or you could be a real richard and wait for him to step into the box and just toss him,but in this case he will have deserved it for trying to cheat.

You are completely wrong!!! The umpire is being an umpire not a richard.

That is my point about this whole thing. If a guy does that and you know your stuff. And you see a player try and sneak a bat in after inspection throw his ass. Then if it league let the LD know he did it. At a tournament let the UIC and the Tournament Director know. That is an umpires responsibility not digging through my bag. Next are you going to look for drying agents do you need to see my Gorrilla Gold
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
You are completely wrong!!! The umpire is being an umpire not a richard.

True, but we prefer to be preventative about this and catch the issue before it becomes a problem. Honest mistakes can be made, and I'd rather keep a guy in the game than send him home. Some ejections can and should be avoided.

That is my point about this whole thing. If a guy does that and you know your stuff. And you see a player try and sneak a bat in after inspection throw his ass.

Again, see above response. I've tossed plenty of players, but I prefer not to.

Then if it league let the LD know he did it. At a tournament let the UIC and the Tournament Director know. That is an umpires responsibility not digging through my bag. Next are you going to look for drying agents do you need to see my Gorrilla Gold

Actually, Gorilla Gold must be kept in your pocket, and that's the only thing allowed in your pockets. We can, and will, instruct players to empty their pockets of everything. Turn 'em inside out. If you have something else in your pocket, then we might have a problem.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
But Gorrilla Gold never killed anyone

Nope, and it doesn't give you an advantage, either. But there are many other things that could be in your pocket that can.

It was 2002 the year of the Nationals I am referring too

I figured, and I knew what you meant. The early part of this century was a pivotal moment in softball: the advent of super hot composite bats.
 

johnsonrod

Starting Player
Why does everything have to be a "rule?" Just curious as to this "show me the rule" mentality.

Leagues are, and always will be, a completely different matter. I wouldn't go into a bag on my own - I'd make the player do it for me.

There's no possible way for me to account for every possible scenario in which a bat is confiscated, nor am I a lawyer. This is a question for lawyers, not umpires.

bc if i were playing in a league asa game, and an ump went through my personal belongings and took something, you better believe im going to be upset.

im assuming a big asa tournament has supplemental rules pertaining the specific fields and what not, and that there is a good chance something about bats would be included. just like if bat fails a compression test, its confiscated.

im not aware of there being something in the asa rules that says an ump can go through your bag and take your bat. thats why i asked if there was a rule.

as to your last point about lawyers, im not talking about every possible situation, im talking about 1 specific situation. you always say its the players responsibility to know the rules/situation... as someone who is potentially breaking the LAW, dont you think it would be a wise thing an umpire to take some responsibility?
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
bc if i were playing in a league asa game, and an ump went through my personal belongings and took something, you better believe im going to be upset.

I'm not even going to touch this whole "league question." Why? Because there are too many variables here. Every league in the US has its own set of expectations both of the players and of the umpires. I simply can't account for that.

im assuming a big asa tournament has supplemental rules pertaining the specific fields and what not, and that there is a good chance something about bats would be included. just like if bat fails a compression test, its confiscated.

im not aware of there being something in the asa rules that says an ump can go through your bag and take your bat. thats why i asked if there was a rule.

Softball tourneys are not comprised of just rules, there's also the aforementioned ASA Code. There are also Tournament Directors and UICs who have different expectations that will work for that particular tournament.

as to your last point about lawyers, im not talking about every possible situation, im talking about 1 specific situation. you always say its the players responsibility to know the rules/situation... as someone who is potentially breaking the LAW, dont you think it would be a wise thing an umpire to take some responsibility?

1 - Breaking the law? Oh, brother... :rolleyes: I'm not a lawyer. I don't pretend to be one, not even on TV. So I can't dispense legal advice. Seek that elsewhere.

2 - Responsibility? To what end?

Guys, we're making mountains out of molehills here. You've taken a statement and run 900 yards away from where it was intended. I've already said that an umpire going into a player's bag is ill-advised, and I simply don't do it. I have the PLAYER go into the bag, and when I'm calling a tournament, there's typically a VERY specific process that's involved when an illegal/altered/non-approved bat is discovered.

Mountains out of molehills, gentlemen.
 
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