oppo
Coach
..........
ASA donuts on end of bats
- Thread starter sskrueger
- Start date
oppo
Coach
Your rights don't end at the ballpark. Maybe some people reading this thread as well as posting in it are confused about what exactly the difference is between rights and priveledges.
Joker
Well-Known Member
start bringing a lawyer with you to the games or shut up about it
BLAR13
Addicted to Softballfans
This has gotten out of control. Sorry to the OP for highjacking your thread.
I know there are prima donna players out there but we need to look at prima donna umpires who feel they need to interpret the rules and twist the intent of the rule so you make a player jump through the hoops you want them to so you can go back to the umpire room after your games and say "I made that guy take his bat all the way to the car and when he got mad I threatened to toss him and he shut right up and took his bat to the parking lot." We'll goodie for you and guess what there is a possibility that team will not return to the ASA event or anymore ASA events that year. Then who can you boss around. Guys the ASA game is hurting and it is because of the crap we as players have to put up from umpires and the association.
You hide behind your blue shirt with your bit of authority causing problems under the guise of saving me from myself. THanks Obama but I don't need you stepping in and telling me how to do things. If I do screw up and get thrown from the game guess what I am going to learn and not do it again.
You want to stop the cheaters call them out. We all know the guys swinging glass and if they bring them to my games I call them out. I tell the umpire to check to see if the bat feels rolled I make them check the end cap. 90% of the time the umpire does nothing but I will continue to call out guys that I kn ow are swinging dirty. When I umpire(oh yeah I am an umpire too on the local board of umpires and everything) after checking bats I see someone pull one out and come to bat with it I check it. If it is a Utrip bat they are trying to sneak in I let them step in the box and toss them. Yes I hear "you checked our bats and said this one was legal" and I tell the player that he knows he pulled it from the bag after I did my check. Guys know not to pull crap like that when I umpire.
And on that subject. I have had an umpire screw up in a game I was playing and missed a Synergy 2 this year. Player stepped in the box I called time and challenged the bat the umpire said he checked them and it was fine. I told him that it was on the Non_approved list and the scorekeepers had the list he looked at it and tossed the bat but didn't want to toss the player. I told him it is the players responsibility to know what he can or can't use. The rule doesn't read you are not allowed to use banned equipment unless your umpire is a moron who doesn't take the time to learn his craft. The umpire let the guy play and threatened to throw me from the game. What a crock.
Peace I am outta here
I know there are prima donna players out there but we need to look at prima donna umpires who feel they need to interpret the rules and twist the intent of the rule so you make a player jump through the hoops you want them to so you can go back to the umpire room after your games and say "I made that guy take his bat all the way to the car and when he got mad I threatened to toss him and he shut right up and took his bat to the parking lot." We'll goodie for you and guess what there is a possibility that team will not return to the ASA event or anymore ASA events that year. Then who can you boss around. Guys the ASA game is hurting and it is because of the crap we as players have to put up from umpires and the association.
You hide behind your blue shirt with your bit of authority causing problems under the guise of saving me from myself. THanks Obama but I don't need you stepping in and telling me how to do things. If I do screw up and get thrown from the game guess what I am going to learn and not do it again.
You want to stop the cheaters call them out. We all know the guys swinging glass and if they bring them to my games I call them out. I tell the umpire to check to see if the bat feels rolled I make them check the end cap. 90% of the time the umpire does nothing but I will continue to call out guys that I kn ow are swinging dirty. When I umpire(oh yeah I am an umpire too on the local board of umpires and everything) after checking bats I see someone pull one out and come to bat with it I check it. If it is a Utrip bat they are trying to sneak in I let them step in the box and toss them. Yes I hear "you checked our bats and said this one was legal" and I tell the player that he knows he pulled it from the bag after I did my check. Guys know not to pull crap like that when I umpire.
And on that subject. I have had an umpire screw up in a game I was playing and missed a Synergy 2 this year. Player stepped in the box I called time and challenged the bat the umpire said he checked them and it was fine. I told him that it was on the Non_approved list and the scorekeepers had the list he looked at it and tossed the bat but didn't want to toss the player. I told him it is the players responsibility to know what he can or can't use. The rule doesn't read you are not allowed to use banned equipment unless your umpire is a moron who doesn't take the time to learn his craft. The umpire let the guy play and threatened to throw me from the game. What a crock.
Peace I am outta here
RDD15
Addicted to Softballfans
What was the result of your properly filed protest? As an umpire yourself, you surely handled the situation in the proper manner by not arguing, but instead filing a protest, right?
oppo
Coach
I wasn't the one who started the discussion and last I checked, you weren't a mod so GFY.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
Yes, I'm absolutely dodging the question. Why? Because how the hell can I comment on what thousands of different leagues do? Each and every league writes their own local rules, and many have different rules regarding how the bats are handled. Some are written, some are not (bad idea). And yes, some local laws could potentially apply, for better or worse.
There's simply no way that I can make one statement that can account for all of these thousands of variations, and to even try to do so would be irresponsible.
So yes, I'm dodging your very vague and generic question. It can't be answered by me without a dissertation.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
So wait... Are we prima donna power-trippers, or are we hiding behind a blue shirt? Which is it?
And for the record, other associations have similar, if not tougher, stances on non-approved bats being brought onto the premises. This isn't just an "ASA thing." Get a grip.
BLAR13
Addicted to Softballfans
C'mon man you know the guy trying to improperly use the bit of power he has as an umpire to bully a player with threat of ejection knowing you can't do anything due to suspension from play from a game we take way to seriously.
I have said this on many an occasion in this thread. I am not calling you out since I do not know you. Unless you are offended then you may be the umpire I describe. But I like the way you try to twist my words that's what people losing arguments do.
And for the record said:
Please enlighten me? I am serious I would like to know so I do not break any rules and can be thrown from any softball games.
oppo
Coach
No, now we are debating if socks are acceptable.
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
We are neither. We are people who officiate an athletic event and being true Americans, it is easier for the players to justify someone's shortcomings by directing attention toward someone else.
Simply doing the job and enforcing the appropriate rules is what we do, but if it doesn't fit with the advantage the player is seeking, it will be "sure, make the game about you" comments even though we do not even want to be noticed. BUT I GUARANTEE, the moment you miss the other team doing something wrong, no matter how trivial, the same players will want to know why you are not doing your job.
cdamron13
scerred of sbf
so which one of you ump'd Desert Storm?
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
That's funny, because that's exactly what people here are doing. I do not advocate an umpire going into someone's bag on their own, though others keep insisting that I'm for it.
Sure.
Here is USSSA's statement indicating that illegal/altered bats will be confiscated until play is finished.
Here's NSA's statement that bats that are suspected to be altered may be confiscated.
Here's ISA's.
Are you guys getting the picture yet?
If the bat is checked and is found to be non-conforming, just about every association says, "we reserve the right to grab the bat."
Now, yes, you may certainly refuse to hand it over. It is your property, and you do not have to give the bat to them. But if that's your decision, ALL associations have VERY strict penalties if you choose to not hand your bat over to them (often a 5-year suspension).
So if a player feels that strongly about it, sure, he can keep his bat if he wants. I won't have to deal with him for another 5 years, and that may be the best thing for him.
BINGO!
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
Too old for DS and there wasn't much softball in 'Nam.
oppo
Coach
Assuming the circumstances under which the bat is checked are covered under either the association's or the local league's rules or in some reasonable way disclosed to the players ahead of time, we are on the same page here.
johnsonrod
Starting Player
youve made it clear, at least to me, that you dont advocate it. but not advocating it and saying it is wrong are 2 different things.
and dont you think its funny that you can pull out the USSSA, NSA, ISA rules but get self defensive when someone asks if an ASA rule exists. which i could only assume does not. you really dont expect a NSA rule to apply to an ASA game do you?
so ill ask you a THIRD time
let me make this real simple, its a local ASA league that only uses the ASA rule book, no other local rules apply.
what would give an umpire the right to go into someones bag and take a bat from it? for example, if there is a rule saying so, then that is what would give them the right.
i really dont understand why you are unable to criticize another umpire, do you really think they are infallible? to err is human, unless you are an umpire.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
Do I think it's bad procedure? Generally-speaking, absolutely. Do I think it's WRONG? Matter of opinion.
The ASA Code has been brought up before, and it supports the actions of an umpire confiscating a bat in ASA Championship Play. It is also perfectly acceptable for an umpire to inspect all equipment, and this is specifically laid out in the Umpire Manual on page 232. It says "inspect all equipment together," not "inspect only what the players say will be used."
And again, leagues are a completely different animal. Each league is going to be completely different, and this MUST be handled on a league-by-league basis. I can only comment on the leagues that I call, as I have read their local rules regarding bat procedures. If they're smart, they lay it all out for everyone ahead of time.
That's the best answer I can give you. Don't like it? Fine, I'll be happy to refund the money you paid me to answer your question. Would you like that in air, happy thoughts, or bellybutton lint?
Fin09
Addicted to Softballfans
See, this is a win-win for me, since my name is actually Richard. I can be a Richard and an umpire at the same time.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
See, I HATE it when guys named Richard insist that others use that nickname in public. Faces get kind of lost on me, and once time, I went up to a guy and said, "hey, ****!"
It wasn't ****.
Fin09
Addicted to Softballfans
Yeah, my dad is the only one who calls me by that nickname anymore, and more because it's his name, too. I stopped using that nickname after college- it stopped being funny when I started applying for real jobs.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
johnsonrod
Starting Player
why do you keep talking about that? i clearly said only the ASA rules apply and NO supplemental local rules.
i just find it very amusing and sad that you are unable to be critical of umpires.
and why do umpires never inspect the balls in the dugout, surely a stadium ball poses as much of a risk as a usssa bat
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
I'll be critical of umpires when I think it's unwarranted. I'll leave it to armchair quarterbacks like yourself to throw them under the bus and kick them while they're down.
The differences you fail to recognize are as follows:
1 - The ASA Code does not apply to the local leagues.
2 - At tournaments (including all 3 ASA Nationals I've officiated), the expectations were clearly set BEFORE any games began. Managers were told at the Managers' Meeting exactly what would happen and why it would happen. Not once did any manager raise any objection or concerns at the meetings other than the usual concerns about time.
3 - ASA rules are written with Championship Play in mind, not local leagues. It is 100% up to the local leagues to devise their own policies on how "bad bats" are to be handled. Some will hold it at the scorekeeper's table, some say the bats must be sent to the cars, some may even confiscate the bat to be "sent downtown." Whatever the procedure is, that's up to the league to decide.
I've said all I care to say on the matter. If you aren't getting a clue by now, then you never will. I'm not getting paid to answer your questions. Don't like it? Call someone else and cry.
Oh, and I reimbursed you for your question via PP.
oppo
Coach
I was wondering about this. Aside from bringing them into the batter's box, I didn't see anything about "bad bats" in any of the ASA literature that I have read and assumed I was just missing it. Thanks for the clarification.
oppo
Coach
Just for the record, the roster sheet that I signed is simply an injury/photo release and says that I can be removed for "offensive conduct".
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
Just for the record, you need to get someone to read the first non-instructional line of the Player's Affidavit on the roster.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
And before people start flipping out over ASA, keep in mind that these forms are pretty much standard, regardless of the association.