Any Dropping an infield fly rule popup

rhound50

Rec Coed Superstar
I was playing 3b in league last night. Runner on 1st and 2nd and one out. Dude hits a pop up to me. Umpire calls infield fly rule, I let the ball hit ball bounce out of my glove and drop. The runner from 2nd was nice enough to run and I tagged him out for the 3rd out. The league was USSSA and someone on my team told me in the future I need to let the ball drop without hitting my glove that dropping a ball on purpose is a dead ball if it hits the fielders glove. I might be messed up here but I thought that was ASA only and there was no such rule is USSSA. Someone want to help me out here.
 

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
All baseball and softball rule sets prohibit intentionally dropped balls (with less than two outs and at least first base occupied). The tricky part is that they do not all define an "intentionally dropped ball" the exact same way.

For USSSA: It is illegal to use your glove to guide the ball to the ground, or to let it hit your glove and purposely drop it. If that's what you did- and if they were using USSSA rules- it should have been a dead ball on the drop, batter out, other runners returned to bases held at time of the pitch.

The ASA rule is different. They define an intentionally dropped ball as one that is first actually caught. Under their rules it is legal to knock the ball to the ground, but not to actually catch it then drop it.

For either rule set, it is perfectly legal to let the ball drop to the ground untouched.

And, in either rule set, it is stupid for runners to think they need to advance on a dropped ball after an infield fly has been declared! The batter is out on the infield fly, removning all force outs and removing the need for the runners to advance.
 
Last edited:

Gulf Coast Blue

Addicted to Softballfans
Bret.....is it ok to allow the ball to drop in USSSA?......I thought that was a no-no.......not having called it....I am not sure....

It is O.K. in ASA

Joel
 
Last edited:

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
Bret if I might add something here.

The ASA rule is different. They define an intentionally dropped ball as one that is first actually caught. Under their rules it is legal to knock the ball to the ground, but not to actually catch it then drop it.


Please understand that the intentionally dropped ball is a judgement call by the umpire. If in the umpire's judgment it was intentionally dropped its a dead ball therefore it might be different for each umpire.

Thanks Bret.
 

johnsonrod

Starting Player
for the ASA rule set. RS 30 outlines the what is supposed to happen.... but my question is, when calling an intentional drop, do you use the same guidelines, if no one is on base, to rule a catch/no catch on a line drive, when calling an intentional drop?

in case that isnt clear (which is probably isnt) for example, if no one is on base, and theres a liner hit to 3rd, and it hits the 3B in the glove, but it pops out, you have to call either catch or no catch. now runners on 1st and 2nd, 0 outs, the same ball is hit and you know the 3B is trying to not catch the ball so he can turn a double play, do you use the same criteria judging catch/no catch with no one on and for intentional drop, if applicable?
 

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
Yes, that is a good point and one I didn't think about earlier! When in an infield fly is called, it takes precedence over an intentionally dropped ball call. That is, since the batter is already out on the infield fly call, it doesn't really matter if the fielder drops the ball, either accidently or on purpose. An intentional drop can't be called.

In the same situation, runners on first and second and less than two outs, you could rule an intentional drop on a line drive or a bunt (in fastpitch) since neither of those can be called an infield fly. But not on an infield fly.

Johnsonrod, you do use the same guidelines of catch/no catch in either situation. Earlier this year, ASA issued a "play clarification" on their website that addresses this:

A question was submitted on the situation of an intentionally dropped fly ball as it is explained in the rule supplement. Rule Supplement 30 states “The ball cannot be intentionally dropped unless the fielder has actually caught it and then drops it. Merely guiding the ball to the ground is not an intentionally dropped ball.” The purpose of the rule is to prevent a defensive player from gaining an advantage for a possible double play. To have an “intentionally dropped” ball the ball must be caught and then dropped. It is always umpire judgment as to whether the fielder caught the ball and then dropped it.

Play: B1 hits a soft line drive to the left of F6 which enters the pocket of his glove and then allows the ball to fall to the ground before securing it to create a double play possibility.

Ruling: If in the judgment of the umpire, the ball entered the pocket of the fielder’s glove and the fielder caught the ball and then intentionally let it drop from the glove, the ball is dead, the batter is out and runners return to the last base touched at the time of the pitch.
 
Last edited:

Fin09

Addicted to Softballfans
Since the infield fly was correctly called here, the intentional drop has no bearing on the play. The runner should have stayed put, since he was no longer forced to go anywhere. No need to rule on whether he dropped it intentionally or on purpose- the ball is live at this point, so whatever happens next happens.
 

johnsonrod

Starting Player
bretman,

am i correct in interpretting that the criteria for ruling a "catch" in an IDB scenario is less than the criteria for ruling a catch on a normal line, non IDB, scenario?
 

Built4CubanLynx

Banned User
If the infield FLY rule was called I thought you cant advance anyways.. So even though the 2nd base runner ran and you tagged him should mean nothing at all.Hes still sent back to 2nd. Even if you missed him and he made it to 3rd he should be sent back to 2nd because of the ruling of the FLY rule??? Right
 

rhound50

Rec Coed Superstar
If the infield FLY rule was called I thought you cant advance anyways.. So even though the 2nd base runner ran and you tagged him should mean nothing at all.Hes still sent back to 2nd. Even if you missed him and he made it to 3rd he should be sent back to 2nd because of the ruling of the FLY rule??? Right

Infield fly rule, runners can advance at their own risk.
 

Fin09

Addicted to Softballfans
Cuban- the infield fly does not make the ball dead- it just takes the force off so you don't have cheap double or triple plays on popups. The runners can still advance at their own risk- they're not sent back to any bases just because the infield fly rule is called.
 

BrianWitty

Addicted to Softballfans
It is bush-- it is trying to take advantage of a situation where a rule specifically was created to stop people from doing ghey crap like that - and in ASA when an infield fly is called, it becomes a dead ball and the runners MUST return to the bag. the play is over and on to the next one. If memory serves correctly you can find it in the 2010 asa rulebook under Rule 2 section J. As far as Utrip goes, my input would be nothing more than an educated guess (meaning I don't know what I'm talking about) but that certainly doesnt stop a great many of the folks on this board from giving the "rules"
 

p17

SBFs 16th all time poster
It is bush-- it is trying to take advantage of a situation where a rule specifically was created to stop people from doing ghey crap like that - and in ASA when an infield fly is called, it becomes a dead ball and the runners MUST return to the bag. the play is over and on to the next one. If memory serves correctly you can find it in the 2010 asa rulebook under Rule 2 section J. As far as Utrip goes, my input would be nothing more than an educated guess (meaning I don't know what I'm talking about) but that certainly doesnt stop a great many of the folks on this board from giving the "rules"

n o
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
It is bush-- it is trying to take advantage of a situation where a rule specifically was created to stop people from doing ghey crap like that - and in ASA when an infield fly is called, it becomes a dead ball and the runners MUST return to the bag. the play is over and on to the next one. If memory serves correctly you can find it in the 2010 asa rulebook under Rule 2 section J. As far as Utrip goes, my input would be nothing more than an educated guess (meaning I don't know what I'm talking about) but that certainly doesnt stop a great many of the folks on this board from giving the "rules"

You couldn't be more wrong. The IF, as previously stated, does nothing more than rule the BR out. Period. The game continues. The ONLY rule affected is the IDB which is not in effect when an IF is called. All other rules are applicable to the continuing play.

BTW, you are full of s*** since ASA's rule 2 addresses the field, and the field only.

And your educated guess isn't even that in either sanctioning body.
 
It is bush-- it is trying to take advantage of a situation where a rule specifically was created to stop people from doing ghey crap like that - and in ASA when an infield fly is called, it becomes a dead ball and the runners MUST return to the bag. the play is over and on to the next one. If memory serves correctly you can find it in the 2010 asa rulebook under Rule 2 section J. As far as Utrip goes, my input would be nothing more than an educated guess (meaning I don't know what I'm talking about) but that certainly doesnt stop a great many of the folks on this board from giving the "rules"

n o X 2 .
 

ball go far

Addicted to Softballfans
me pitching, runner on 1st...pop up not very high
batter just starts back to the dugout (3b side) i let ball drop and get dbl play
only people upset were the hitting team and they were yelling at there guy for not ruinning it out

that being said it is not a bush move..if the retard at second new the rules he would not have run. he should thank OP for curing his ignorance of the rules
 

RDD15

Addicted to Softballfans
in ASA when an infield fly is called, it becomes a dead ball and the runners MUST return to the bag. the play is over and on to the next one. If memory serves correctly you can find it in the 2010 asa rulebook under Rule 2 section J.

So you are chiding other posters in this thread for posting "the rules" in an erroneous manner, yet you state a rule that is 100% not in the book. I challenge you to locate and cite the rule from the ASA rule book that makes an infield fly a dead ball and runners may not advance. If you can do that, I will crown you king of the internet. But until you find this (nonexistant) rule, I suggest that you reexamine your familiarity with the rule book, and take a lesson in humility and speaking out of your ass when you haven't a clue.

Making a mistake is fine, but being a tool toward those that are correct when you are wrong is really asinine.

By the way:

Rule 2 section J. Regional, Area, and National Championship Final play the minimum lighting level is 30-foot candles.

So yeah, not quite.
 

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
It is bush-- it is trying to take advantage of a situation where a rule specifically was created to stop people from doing ghey crap like that - and in ASA when an infield fly is called, it becomes a dead ball and the runners MUST return to the bag.

Someone is confused and probably not coming back. ^
 

BrianWitty

Addicted to Softballfans
Ok guys - In my post I said "If memory serves..... (think about that a minute) it is at rule 2 sec J" I was wrong about where it was at.

Lets first look at RULE 8 SEC 6

dealing with "a runner must return to their base" then look at subsection H - where it says "when an intentionally dropped ball is ruled."

that covers part of the issue- now lets look at exactly what I was referring to....

Rule 8 section 2 subsection J (I remembered part of where it was at.)

"when an infielder intentionally drops a fair flyball, including a line drive or bunt which can be caught with ordinary effort with first, first and second, first and third, or first second and third bases occupied with fewer than two outs. EFFECT= Dead Ball, runners MUST RETURN TO THE LAST BASE TOUCHED AT THE TIME OF THE PITCH.

It does however go on to say that when an infield fly is ruled that it will take precedence over an intentionally dropped ball.
My bad guys, I misunderstood the rule because of the parallel of the INFIELD FLY RULE in subsection "I" (immidiatly before this one) and an incedent that took place in our league a few weeks ago.

I appologize, and I'll have my crow with some potatoes and steamed veggies please.


That being said, I still think it's about as bush as walking the 9th batter on a shorthanded team to get the auto out.
 
Last edited:

Fin09

Addicted to Softballfans
The purpose of dropping a popup on an IF call is to see if the baserunners know the rules. If they don't, and you can get an extra out, it's hardly bush. If the runners know the rules, they stay put, no extra outs, no one looks silly. Not bush. What's bush is not knowing that the IF call takes the force off. The baserunner thinking he has to advance because the ball was dropped is what's bush in this case. Bush bush bush.
 

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
I appologize, and I'll have my crow with some potatoes and steamed veggies please.


I'm impressed :thumbsup


That being said, I still think it's about as bush as walking the 9th batter on a shorthanded team to get the auto out.

The term "Bush" cracks me up. It means of minor league or unprofessional quality, right? Softball is WAY below Bush so anything goes. It just adds hilarity to the game.

If you need a win to advance in a tournament, walking to get the auto out is smart. In a double header league night it seems pointless.
 
Top