Foul or fair?

MaverickAH

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
dunkky said:
i understand Mav. All i am saying this flaw of judgement calls can be significantly minimized if you go by the hard line. what we call a fair/foul line here, we are referring to this imaginary line in the air. You relying on human eye from 10 -15 ft away to possibly detect foul ball or not if the ball is less than a few inch away from this imaginary foul line? Also why would you kill the play that way by calling it a foul ball when it has a chance to yield a different outcome when the ball is still live in the air and untouched?
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You lost me in your last sentence. Who's killing a play when the ball is still live in the air & untouched? At that point it's neither fair nor foul. The ball has to be touched by either a fielder, the ground, leave the field of play, settle fair/foul or something unless it's completely obvious.

Very often I have to officiate single ump games on natural fields. No lines. No fences. No foul poles. No clear delineation of fair/foul or playable/dead ball territory. All I have is my judgement & maybe some cones in the outfield to assist me. You line yourself up & make your call. Of course if it's close, the offense is never happy when you call it foul & the defense is never happy when you call it fair......
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
MaverickAH said:
Who's killing a play when the ball is still live in the air & untouched?
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the moment a player touches the ball in a foul territory, let's say 1 inch away from the line in the air, blue can call that foul ball, right? it's dead at that point. but if you go by last location where the ball bounced, then the play is still on.
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
Haha. No man. Trolling is not my nature. I really think current rule sucks. I already admitted i was wrong. So i aint no trolling nor trying to be a devils advocate.
 
MaverickAH

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
dunkky said:
the moment a player touches the ball in a foul territory, let's say 1 inch away from the line in the air, blue can call that foul ball, right? it's dead at that point. but if you go by last location where the ball bounced, then the play is still on.
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Last location is where the ball was touched not the last position that it made contact with the ground.
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
Perhaps i am not describing this well enough or you could be interpreting it your own way.

where the ball was touched, is current location, not last. That's when a blue can make a judgement call. I have repeatedly said multiple times, "last location where the ball was bounced".
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
why am i a dead horse?? I understand the current rule crystal clear and i see a room for more improvement. that's all.
 
Redsfan

Redsfan

Well-Known Member
You aren't a dead horse. You wanting to change a rule that has been in existence very long time is beating a dead horse. I have played baseball and softball for much of my life and have never had someone want to complain about this rule more or even complain about it at all. This thread is actually a first for me.
 
JP21

JP21

Member
dunkky said:
when 3rd baseman touched the ball, ball looked to be in the foul territory in the air.
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FOUL BALL, why are you making this so hard!

it is where the ball is touched, NOT where its going to end up.

player standing in FAIR territory reaching over into FOUL territory touching ball = Foul ball
and vise versa

WHAT could happen after the touch is irreverent, IE. Spin, wind, flat Earthers etc...
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
welcome back joker!! I already stated my opinion, don't see i can convince anyone. so, let's move on.
 
MaverickAH

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
dunkky said:
Perhaps i am not describing this well enough or you could be interpreting it your own way.

where the ball was touched, is current location, not last. That's when a blue can make a judgement call. I have repeatedly said multiple times, "last location where the ball was bounced".
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You're describing it just fine!! It your interpretation of "last location" that is off.

By your definition, a tipped ball that bounces off of the plate & then hits the catcher or umpire before hitting the ground should be considered a fair ball. Does that really make sense to you? :rolleyes: What if the ball is tipped straight back, deflects off the catcher or umpire & then first hits the ground in fair territory?

Again, by your definition, a ball that first hits in foul territory then kicks fair & is touched by an infielder before hitting the ground should be considered a foul ball.

Just so we are clear, all of this discussion involves batted balls that haven't passed a base yet.

You just can't change a definition or the meaning of a phrase to fit your needs! By definition, a batted ball is not considered fair or foul until it either passes a base, is touched or settles. Sense we're talking about balls that haven't passed a base, it's the position of the ball when first touched or where it settles that defines its "last location".
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
I can continue this conversation, but i think everyone is bored and so am I. so, i am going to flood some other thread. :)
 
Hiltz

Hiltz

Built for comfort
NCASAUmp said:
I think I just got dumber reading dunkky’s responses.
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We self-ump in a rec league here, every single team has 3-4 dunkky's. There's actually a league rule that abolishes infield flies because only about 10% of the players could correctly call it.
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
still going? I thought we wanted to move on. which one is it, make up your mind ladies.

Just because a few of the internet strangers think it's dumb, doesn't mean it's dumb. Good thing is the world is not evolved around you.

This is how you solve it.

My idea stands the same. if the ball hits a catcher or blue and the balls drops in a fair territory and remains in a fair territory, it's fair. Should player decides to take his chance and let it roll to foul territory then, its foul. Why not, blue and catchers should be part of plays just like the one out there near the second base.

what is that so dumb? because you can't see nothing but the rules that you are used to for many years plus old plus being hard head plus you don't want any change? Is it different, yes for better.

Disagreeing is one thing, but grown men ass calling internet stranger a dumb/stupid is a child act. Because i can call you stupid or dumb same way and that's gonna make look all of us childish.
 
Redsfan

Redsfan

Well-Known Member
A wise man once said, "It's better to let someone think you are an idiot than open your mouth or type on your keyboard and remove all doubt."
 
JP21

JP21

Member
dunkky said:
Why not, blue and catchers should be part of plays just like the one out there near the second base.
what is that so dumb?
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The umpire at second is standing in fair territory, the catcher and home plate ump are in foul. Where do you draw the line? what about balls that foul of the back stop and go back into play, still fair? or what about a jacked home run that hits the lights and falls back onto the field, not a home run, its now live and in play?

Oh now I know where to draw the line. Its called a foul line !
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
The umpire at second is standing in fair territory, the catcher and home plate ump are in foul.
Don't matter where they stand, they are touching the fair/live ball based on the rule i defined.

what about balls that foul of the back stop and go back into play, still fair?
Same. Ball made a contact against an tangible object, did it not? judgement should be based on that.

what about a jacked home run that hits the lights and falls back onto the field, not a home run, its now live and in play?

Same. it made a contact. it hit the light in the fair territory, it's HR. it hit the light in foul territory.
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
Redsfan said:
A wise man once said, "It's better to let someone think you are an idiot than open your mouth or type on your keyboard and remove all doubt."
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great phrase, make sure you share that with your kids for their education.
 
JP21

JP21

Member
dunkky said:
Same. it made a contact. it hit the light in the fair territory, it's HR. it hit the light in foul territory.
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I have played in a lot of ball parks in my life, but I have never played in a park that had lights IN FAIR territory. lmfao, you Muppet
 
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