Foul or fair?

Sorry in advance, totally blanking on what should be a very simple answer. Not association specific, I don't believe.

Batted ball, miss hit with a lot of spin. Ball hits ground in infield, fair territory, (before 1st or 3rd base) and bounces towards foul territory. Fielder, makes contact with ball that is no longer in fair territory but has not touched the ground in foul territory.

I believe it is a fair ball, because it touched in fair territory (regardless of where it is when touched by the fielder, assuming it had not made contact with the ground in foul territory).
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
If it has not passed first, second, or third bases, then it’s judged fair or foul by where it is first touched or where it settles.

So if it’s touched completely over foul territory, then it is a foul ball.
 

lb16

the natural
Foul ball remember there is a fair/foul line for a reason it is always where the ball is in relation to the fair/foul line. Where ball hit last only matters once it passes by base or over base.
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
in our league, it's fair. and in my world it's fair. ball is only foul when it lands foul territory.

Let me make this simple, a fly ball that is in foul territory, OF reaches for it and touch it and lands on fair territory, that's fair ball.
 

tonys1

Moderator
That makes no sense, that's why baseball players wait for a slow rolling bunt down the line and touch it as soon as it reaches foul territory. Where the player is standing makes no difference.
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
how is it wrong? A blue should never ever declares a foul ball until it lands. there are too many variables that will change the path of the ball in the air. Wind, ball spinning, etc. There's no such thing as imaginary foul line in the air.
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
That makes no sense, that's why baseball players wait for a slow rolling bunt down the line and touch it as soon as it reaches foul territory. Where the player is standing makes no difference.

you mean, where the ball lands.
 

tonys1

Moderator
I’m talking about it rolling down the line (on a bunt or ground ball) BEFORE it crosses first or third. The fielder can touch the ball at any point while it’s moving regardless of whether he’s in fair or foul territory and the call is made based on whether the ball was in fair or foul territory.
 

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
how is it wrong? A blue should never ever declares a foul ball until it lands. there are too many variables that will change the path of the ball in the air. Wind, ball spinning, etc. There's no such thing as imaginary foul line in the air.
Op states the ball was touched in foul territory after it hit fair and spun foul = foul ball
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
That is too ambiguous.. what if a player touched it right on the above the line, what about a inch off the line, are you saying those blues gonna see that with that precision?

any ball that's mi**** by a 100 mph bat swing can have any type of movement after it hits the ground. ball might go to an inch off of foul territory and might spin it back to fair territory with some help of wind. not trying to argue, but when it can be black and white, why make a gray rules..
 

andy-rockstar

Living for the Cit-ay
That is too ambiguous.. what if a player touched it right on the above the line, what about a inch off the line, are you saying those blues gonna see that with that precision?

any ball that's mi**** by a 100 mph bat swing can have any type of movement after it hits the ground. ball might go to an inch off of foul territory and might spin it back to fair territory with some help of wind. not trying to argue, but when it can be black and white, why make a gray rules..

The rules aren't gray, but the call is a judgement call by the umpire(s). Judgement of where the ball is when it's touched, and it's a much easier call to make when the ball is on the ground.
 

lb16

the natural
in our league, it's fair. and in my world it's fair. ball is only foul when it lands foul territory.

Let me make this simple, a fly ball that is in foul territory, OF reaches for it and touch it and lands on fair territory, that's fair ball.
Hopefully you never umpire every scenario you just said are all wrong!
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
ok. prove it then, post the reference.

oh well, looks like i am wrong. i just read the wiki. just don't make sense imo.
 
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Pheonix51

Addicted to Softballfans
What’s doesn’t make sense about it? Touched with ball in fair territory = fair. Touched with ball in foul territory = foul.
 

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
That is too ambiguous.. what if a player touched it right on the above the line, what about a inch off the line, are you saying those blues gonna see that with that precision?

any ball that's mi**** by a 100 mph bat swing can have any type of movement after it hits the ground. ball might go to an inch off of foul territory and might spin it back to fair territory with some help of wind. not trying to argue, but when it can be black and white, why make a gray rules..
The close ones (above the line inches fair/foul) do not make sense to me either cause as Andy rockstar says it is unfortunately a judgment call and the only ones judgment that matters is ole blues..
 

Duriisimo

Aguilucho
in our league, it's fair. and in my world it's fair. ball is only foul when it lands foul territory.

Let me make this simple, a fly ball that is in foul territory, OF reaches for it and touch it and lands on fair territory, that's fair ball.

What in the Geesus is this?
 

eddieq

The Great and Powerful Q
Are we still actually talking about determining if a batted ball is fair or foul?
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
The close ones (above the line inches fair/foul) do not make sense to me either cause as Andy rockstar says it is unfortunately a judgment call and the only ones judgment that matters is ole blues..

yeap. that's exactly what i am talking about what others failed to see. Why relying on a judgement call when it can be clear as black and white. this is why a slow video reveals so many judgement calls are wrong and we are allowing that to happen.
 

Redsfan

Well-Known Member
MLB umpires screw up all the time. You guys can't expect softball umps to get things correct making $20 per game.
 

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
yeap. that's exactly what i am talking about what others failed to see. Why relying on a judgement call when it can be clear as black and white. this is why a slow video reveals so many judgement calls are wrong and we are allowing that to happen.

So exactly what do you want to rely on? Do you want instant replay at softball games?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Some basic things that it seems that you need to understand:
  • The foul line, even though it's called that, is in fair territory. If a ball is either over or in contact with it, it's a fair ball.
  • An umpire, in proper position, is absolutely the best arbiter of whether a ball is fair or foul upon first contact by a player
Every call is a judgement call. Ball/Strike..... Safe/Out..... Fair/Foul..... All judgement calls & there are specific people assigned to a game that have the authority to make those judgements. If none of them are you, well...…..

Even where there are hard, concrete rules a lot of them require some sort of judgement to be made first.

There are 3 basic aspects to a game:
  1. Managing/Coaching
  2. Playing
  3. Officiating
There's nothing worse than a player who wants to do all 3! :(
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
i understand Mav. All i am saying this flaw of judgement calls can be significantly minimized if you go by the hard line. what we call a fair/foul line here, we are referring to this imaginary line in the air. You relying on human eye from 10 -15 ft away to possibly detect foul ball or not if the ball is less than a few inch away from this imaginary foul line? Also why would you kill the play that way by calling it a foul ball when it has a chance to yield a different outcome when the ball is still live in the air and untouched?
 

Duriisimo

Aguilucho
i understand Mav. All i am saying this flaw of judgement calls can be significantly minimized if you go by the hard line. what we call a fair/foul line here, we are referring to this imaginary line in the air. You relying on human eye from 10 -15 ft away to possibly detect foul ball or not if the ball is less than a few inch away from this imaginary foul line? Also why would you kill the play that way by calling it a foul ball when it has a chance to yield a different outcome when the ball is still live in the air and untouched?

Did he get 2 feet in bounds when he touched the ball? Another judgement call
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
that i don't know. based on the description above, when 3rd baseman touched the ball, ball looked to be in the foul territory in the air. Judgement call is inevitable unless you take human factor completely out. but it can be minimized significantly with no doubt. Just go by the last bounced location and if a player intercepts it in the foul ball territory in human eyes, then that's live play, not foul ball. Black and white, period.
 

lb16

the natural
Ball is either fair or foul based on the fair/foul line that's about as black and white as it gets except in your world!
 

Redsfan

Well-Known Member
Dunkky, It sounds like you and the OP are mixing basketball/football rules with baseball/softball rules. The home plate ump has a great vantage point if that ball is fair or foul by just looking down the baseline whether the ball is in the air or on the ground. It is a judgment call but it's one of the easier ones an ump has to make. Even if there is no chalk line just looking from home plate to the 3rd base bag you can tell when they break that invisible plane. The problem lies when you have a lazy ump that doesn't take a step or two forward to get a good look down the line.
 
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