ASA Heating a bat.

[Crash RMX]

Still playing in the Northeast. Last night was below freezing and a team brought a heater to the game. They kept their bats near the heater all night. They played 3 games. In the 3rd inning of the last game the opposing captain told the ump it was illegal to heat bats (ASA rule not specific league rule - though we do have a rule against using illegal bats). The umpire told the team to stop using the heater in the next inning (not immediately) but did not penalize the team in any other way. Is this grounds for an enforceable protest?

 

[Joker]

http://www.asasoftball.com/about/getStory.asp?nid=862

ASA Altered Equipment Rule Reminder
4/28/2005

Oklahoma City, OK—In response to many questions from the softball community about heating, cooling and other devices used to alter equipment, the Amateur Softball Association would like to remind all players, coaches, parents, tournament directors and umpires of the notation contained in Rule 3, Section 7 of the ASA’s 2005 Official Rules of Softball:

Rule 3, Section 7

Note: The characteristics of any approved equipment can not be changed. One example would be icing, cooling or heating equipment.

The ASA considers these devices illegal. Furthermore, anyone caught doing this may be subject to Article 510, M, 06 of the ASA Code that states the following:

Article 510, M, 06

Any player discovered using an altered bat, including a doctored bat or a bat with additional weight shall be called out and disqualified from further tournament competition for a minimum of one year. ASA shall have the right to take possession of a bat that is, in the sole discretion of the Tournament Committee, reasonably suspected to be an altered bat. In the event the suspected altered bat is tested and determined to be an altered bat, then the player shall surrender ownership of the altered bat to ASA; otherwise the bat shall be returned to the player. A team that is discovered to have within its possession or control an altered bat may be disqualified from further tournament competition.

 

[Joker]

http://www.asasoftball.com/umpires/clarifications_2009_may.asp

May 2009 Plays and Clarifications

Heating and Cooling Equipment

We have been getting many questions about what is legal and what is not when it comes to heating and cooling equipment. "Is it legal to keep a bat in heat sleeve during those cold nights in the spring time?" "Can I put my bat or softballs in a bucket of ice?" Our rule is very clear on this. Rule 3 Section 7 Note states: The characteristics of any approved equipment can not be changed. Examples would be icing, cooling, heating equipment. This rule is very clear and applies to bats and balls as defined in Rule 3.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Once the bat has been heated, it should be removed from the game for the remainder of the game. It is now considered an altered bat.

The most that can be done is to eject the coach, but in this case, it's likely that the team was doing this out of ignorance and not in an attempt to gain an advantage (other than being able to use the bats in weather that's otherwise too cold).

No further penalty applies, no further action need be taken beyond removing the bats from play.

 

[Hap716]

Still playing in the Northeast. Last night was below freezing and a team brought a heater to the game. They kept their bats near the heater all night. They played 3 games. In the 3rd inning of the last game the opposing captain told the ump it was illegal to heat bats (ASA rule not specific league rule - though we do have a rule against using illegal bats). The umpire told the team to stop using the heater in the next inning (not immediately) but did not penalize the team in any other way. Is this grounds for an enforceable protest?

bush move.....you mad that you didn't have a heater in your dug out.....what would you do if they kept there bats in a running car, complain about that too?

 

[Joker]

bush move.....you mad that you didn't have a heater in your dug out.....what would you do if they kept there bats in a running car, complain about that too?

its against the rules. the way it reads, it doesn't sound like it was his game

 

[Crash RMX]

its against the rules. the way it reads, it doesn't sound like it was his game

It wasn't my game just need to make a call on it and looking for some input.

 

[Laoch]

I absolutely love the attitude everyone gets when they dog the poster for calling anyone on rules. You'd think this board was for the ****ing cheaters themselves.

 

[wagon487]

but did they warm up their balls?

 

[addicted2bats]

Maybe they were just being somewhat intelligent? If they wanted to bring a heater, the most logical place to put it would be near the exit of the dugout where it opens to the playing field. The most traffic will come through that area, and on-deck hitters will be close to that area staying warm before their at-bat. Just so happens to be where everyone puts their bats too......

 

[NCASAUmp]

Maybe they were just being somewhat intelligent? If they wanted to bring a heater, the most logical place to put it would be near the exit of the dugout where it opens to the playing field. The most traffic will come through that area, and on-deck hitters will be close to that area staying warm before their at-bat. Just so happens to be where everyone puts their bats too......

Doesn't matter.

 

[rhound50]

Doesn't matter.

I mean it kinda does right, common sense has to be used at some point. Was the team using it for bats or to keep themselves warm. What actually denotes a heated or cooled bat in this case isn't black and white. If you have guys huddling around the heater and the bats are in their normal place which is also within X feet of the heater it's another totally differnent situation if the heater is just being used for bats. Asa is never gonna have a specific rule to cover distance from a heater so someone is gonna have to use some common sense. Sure it's against the letter of the rules but it sounds to me like this goes along with the we are losing the other team must be swinging glass excuse.

 

[slick303]

So does this mean I can't use the AC in my car on the way to a game on a hot day? All umps should have to have a thermometer and all equipment should be plus or minus 5 degrees of the temp outside.


It really seems like splitting hairs, but if it's a rule its a rule. I would have never complained about bats being too close to a heater on a freezing night, unless they were beating us.

 

[MJL 00]

I totally get the rules. But if they are sitting and heating their sticks during/before a game then they are idiots. I put my game sticks on my hot tub cover and per my temp gun it gets SUPER hot while im at work. So is this illegal? Cause if someone says yes cause its altering the state of the bat before use you can bite me cause I stick my glove out there too. So if I make a quick snatch pitching my glove is illegal. AGAIN if they are heating it purposely before or during a game then naughty, but mine is for the grip and so that my bats are not sitting in my a/c and are less adapt to crack or break.

 

[kj13]

So does this mean I can't use the AC in my car on the way to a game on a hot day? All umps should have to have a thermometer and all equipment should be plus or minus 5 degrees of the temp outside.


It really seems like splitting hairs, but if it's a rule its a rule. I would have never complained about bats being too close to a heater on a freezing night, unless they were beating us.[/QUOTE

LOL

 

[Joker]

So does this mean I can't use the AC in my car on the way to a game on a hot day? All umps should have to have a thermometer and all equipment should be plus or minus 5 degrees of the temp outside.


It really seems like splitting hairs, but if it's a rule its a rule. I would have never complained about bats being too close to a heater on a freezing night, unless they were beating us.

you're retarded

 

[Joker]

I totally get the rules. But if they are sitting and heating their sticks during/before a game then they are idiots. I put my game sticks on my hot tub cover and per my temp gun it gets SUPER hot while im at work. So is this illegal? Cause if someone says yes cause its altering the state of the bat before use you can bite me cause I stick my glove out there too. So if I make a quick snatch pitching my glove is illegal. AGAIN if they are heating it purposely before or during a game then naughty, but mine is for the grip and so that my bats are not sitting in my a/c and are less adapt to crack or break.

the **** does heating your glove have to do with heating a bat? also retarded

 

[Crash RMX]

I guess the question I am asking has less to do with whether or not heating the bat is illegal but what to do after the fact if the umpire does not enforce the rule at the game.

 

[rhound50]

So does this mean I can't use the AC in my car on the way to a game on a hot day? All umps should have to have a thermometer and all equipment should be plus or minus 5 degrees of the temp outside.


It really seems like splitting hairs, but if it's a rule its a rule. I would have never complained about bats being too close to a heater on a freezing night, unless they were beating us.

This is a terrible argument, using your AC in your car and someone having a bat warmer or an ice chest for balls in their dugout.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I mean it kinda does right, common sense has to be used at some point. Was the team using it for bats or to keep themselves warm. What actually denotes a heated or cooled bat in this case isn't black and white. If you have guys huddling around the heater and the bats are in their normal place which is also within X feet of the heater it's another totally differnent situation if the heater is just being used for bats. Asa is never gonna have a specific rule to cover distance from a heater so someone is gonna have to use some common sense. Sure it's against the letter of the rules but it sounds to me like this goes along with the we are losing the other team must be swinging glass excuse.

How's this even that hard? If the heater's near the bats, and I go up and touch the bat and can feel that it's been heated, the bat's been heated. End of discussion.

A good umpire will head this off at the pass before it ever becomes an issue by reminding teams about the rule, advising them to keep the bats away from the heater, and keeping a careful eye whenever possible. Problem solved.

I totally get the rules. But if they are sitting and heating their sticks during/before a game then they are idiots. I put my game sticks on my hot tub cover and per my temp gun it gets SUPER hot while im at work. So is this illegal? Cause if someone says yes cause its altering the state of the bat before use you can bite me cause I stick my glove out there too. So if I make a quick snatch pitching my glove is illegal. AGAIN if they are heating it purposely before or during a game then naughty, but mine is for the grip and so that my bats are not sitting in my a/c and are less adapt to crack or break.

Never seen a glove hit a ball above 98 MPH...

But you answered your own question - you're heating your bats.

I guess the question I am asking has less to do with whether or not heating the bat is illegal but what to do after the fact if the umpire does not enforce the rule at the game.

Did he remove the bats from the game? If so, then he did everything he was supposed to do.

 

[Crash RMX]

In the 4th inning (which is when he became aware of it) of the game he told the team to stop using the heater. They then stopped using the heater. No bats were removed from play.

 

[MJL 00]

the **** does heating your glove have to do with heating a bat? also retarded

it was a joke fella.

 

[MJL 00]

How's this even that hard? If the heater's near the bats, and I go up and touch the bat and can feel that it's been heated, the bat's been heated. End of discussion.

A good umpire will head this off at the pass before it ever becomes an issue by reminding teams about the rule, advising them to keep the bats away from the heater, and keeping a careful eye whenever possible. Problem solved.



Never seen a glove hit a ball above 98 MPH...

But you answered your own question - you're heating your bats.



Did he remove the bats from the game? If so, then he did everything he was supposed to do.

Next time will let them soak IN hot tub...then its more therapy then altering :thumb:

O and question, so if I'm playing a day long tourney and don't have a bag, leave my bat on the grass while sitting and watching others playing, that's altering a bat??? im done with thread seriously....

 

[NCASAUmp]

In the 4th inning (which is when he became aware of it) of the game he told the team to stop using the heater. They then stopped using the heater. No bats were removed from play.

The bats should have been removed from play, along with the heater.

The only problem is - what do you do when ALL of the bats are in front of the heater?

Next time will let them soak IN hot tub...then its more therapy then altering :thumb:

O and question, so if I'm playing a day long tourney and don't have a bag, leave my bat on the grass while sitting and watching others playing, that's altering a bat??? im done with thread seriously....

You were done before you even got started.

 

[MJL 00]

Touché :yawn:

 

[Crash RMX]

That's the million dollar question. Let's assume they were ALL in front of the heater and the ump did not stop them until the 4th inning. Would you give them a forfeit, play the game over - either from the beginning or from the point the ump became aware - or let the game stand?

 

[Joker]

or just move them away from the heater and wait a minute for them to come back to the ambient temp

 

[tuells10]

or just move them away from the heater and wait a minute for them to come back to the ambient temp

This makes the most sense

 

[NCASAUmp]

That's the million dollar question. Let's assume they were ALL in front of the heater and the ump did not stop them until the 4th inning. Would you give them a forfeit, play the game over - either from the beginning or from the point the ump became aware - or let the game stand?

That's really a good question. I'm not sure I have a good answer for that beyond calling it a ball game, which is not a call I'd enjoy making. I'd prefer to wait 20 minutes or so to let the bats cool down, then resume the game.

or just move them away from the heater and wait a minute for them to come back to the ambient temp

That was the original thinking until more studies were done. It was found that the effects of the heating didn't dissipate as quickly as previously thought, and that the effects of heating the bats can last MUCH longer than just a minute or two.

 

[Joker]

i'm sure it matters how much heat and how long they were exposed to the heat