How are you guys playing during the covid era?

[jbo911]

If I thought the general public was interested in science, I would explain the data in much greater detail. However, they are only interested in politics and couldn't care less about the science.

What you are seeing played out is what we as scientists and doctors live and breathe every day. It's just not played out as publicly as it has been for COVID-19. Science and medicine isn't cut and dry or black and white. There are so many variables to account for that the general public will never understand why a study fails to prove an answer.

Someone earlier pointed out bad data. The only bad data is data that is manipulated to support a theory. That isn't how science works. Ask what happened to Andrew Wakefield. He manipulated data to support his theory that the MMR vaccines cause autism. Hundreds of studies have been published with millions of children and they all show no link between MMR and Autism. He has since lost his license to practice medicine. That is what happens when data is manipulated. I am not going to throw away 12 years of education and 6 years of industry experience to manipulate data.

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is not the answer. This has to be the most politicized medication ever... To date there has been several studies performed that show HCQ really has no benefit. Not even as a prophylaxis.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeli...-recovery-trial-reports-on-hydroxychloroquine
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/06/04/hydroxychloroquine-for-avoiding-infection
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-enough-already
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/19/taking-hydroxychloroquine-may-19-update
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/04/hydroxychloroquine-update-may-4

To set the record straight, I am not a proponent for or against HCQ. I honestly wish it was the answer and I would be willing to bet that all scientists and doctors would agree to that statement. It's cheap and generic. However, there is a substantial risk of QT prolongation on HCQ, which could cause sudden cardiac death. This is a well known side effect of HCQ. Couple that with the known cardiovascular effects of COVID-19 and it just isn't good combination. The studies that show HCQ to be effective are restrospective analysis. There was a study published by Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit. I am sure most are aware of this study. If you are not, here is the link: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220305348?via=ihub This study was a retrospective analysis saying that HCQ has promise. However, if you read the details, all patients were also given dexamethasone, which has been shown to reduce mortality in COVID-19 patients!! more on that in a second. Also, in the conclusions, the authors themselves state “Our results also require further confirmation in prospective, randomized controlled trials that rigorously evaluate the safety, and efficacy of hydroxychloroquine therapy for COVID-19 in hospitalized patients.”

However, another generic medication has shown to be effective, dexamethasone.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2021436
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...dexamethasone-not-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/06/17/dexamethasone-for-coronavirus-infection

However, it's only effective for those in respiratory distress. What is becoming apparent is a biphasic treatment plan is necessary. At first you need an antiviral medication that will slow or shut down viral replication and entry. Then the later stages, if the patient goes into respiratory distress, which is caused by an overactive immune response, you need something to attenuate the immune system, like dexamethasone, a corticosteriod.

Masks: I am not going to go into detail. Most of the public wants to think of this as a political statement or a way for the government to take away your freedom. FYI, if you know anything about science, you wouldn't think that way. Read them or not, I really don't care, but here are several studies that show they are effective at controlling transmission:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5705692/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19522650/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2?ContensisTextOnly=true
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329337/

Just remember that the virus has to be housed in a respiratory droplet or it won't survive. So the mask only has to stop a respiratory droplet to be effective.

Vaccines: I really have no idea why people are scared of vaccines. Some recent studies have shown that up to ~50% of the US wouldn't get the vaccine if one were to become available...Let me ask you do you know someone with Polio or Small Pox or Tetanus or Hepatitis B or Hepatitis A or Diphtheria? My guess is no. These viruses were pretty much eradicated solely due to vaccines. The only reason we have measles outbreaks now is because people don't get the MMR vaccine. Thank you Andrew Wakefield for that...

Vaccines are safe and effective. I personally believe that the people that are anti-vax don't understand science and don't want to take the time to understand science. Don't want to realize that all chemicals are not bad for you. FYI water is a chemical. Your body is made up of atoms of elements found on the periodic table. When combined together, they make chemicals. Proteins are amino acids linked together to form a tertiary structure...DNA is nucleic acids linked together by a ribose backbone...all of these are chemicals. The "stuff" that makes up a vaccine is innocuous and all it does is stimulate you body into making antibodies and memory cells (T-cells and B-cells) so that when you come into contact with that virus your body can do it's job.

No you are not going to get micro chipped by a vaccine. There are several fallacies in that statement alone. First, a microchip will not fit through a vaccine needle. Second, you are not that interesting that the government or anyone else needs to know your whereabouts or personal habits. That information is already available if you own a smartphone or just go shopping in public, or even if you just shop on Amazon. You would be blind to think otherwise.

COVID-19 is just the Flu: This is just a very ignorant statement. First off, we have vaccines for the flu. Second SARS-CoV-2 is much more infectious than the flu, in fact about twice as infectious. Look up the R0 values:
https://journals.lww.com/imd/fulltext/2019/09000/a_severe_seasonal_influenza_epidemic_during.4.aspx
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762510

The lower R0 value for the flu is the reason it tends to fizzle out every year...

The death rate is much higher for COVID-19:
death rate for the H1N1 flu in 2009: 0.01-0..08% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4045999/
death rate for Sars-CoV-2: 1.3% https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00455

In short: it is more infectious and and kills more.

Not enough? We also have a statistic that is called excess deaths. Have you heard of this? I didn't think so. We can look at the number of deaths between certain months of the year. We know that between March 1st and May 31st the US had 122,000 excess deaths this year when compared to previous years. This is actually higher than the reported COVID-19 death toll at that time which was 100,000. That is about 30% more deaths than what would be expected from a normal year. You could explain this a few ways:
1. They could all be from COVID-19. Not likely, but possible
2. Some sould be COVID-19 and the others could be not directly related to COVID-19...Meaning people were too afraid to get medical care they normally would due to fear of hospitals and COVID-19
3. Could be completely unrelated to COVID-19. Again not likely, but possible.

Here is another sobering fact. Traffic deaths and homicides were down due to the US being in quarantine.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/covid-19-and-excess-deaths/

If you think this is detailed, it really isn't. I really didn't dig into the details of any of the scientific data.

It is really a shame that this virus has divided the US the way it has. I honestly believe that if politics were taken out of the argument, the US would be in much better shape. Politics doesn't belong in medicine or science.

Science is black and white. That doesn't mean it's easily digestible and can be easily absorbed as black and white by the general public.

I watched the 2011 movie contagion, and while it's fiction and about a much deadlier virus, people were wearing masks instantly, and there weren't any people clamoring against it. That's a good movie to watch right now for a lot of reasons.

 

[smoke]

PEOPLE ARE STUPID
SMOKE

 

[kj13]

If I thought the general public was interested in science, I would explain the data in much greater detail. However, they are only interested in politics and couldn't care less about the science.

What you are seeing played out is what we as scientists and doctors live and breathe every day. It's just not played out as publicly as it has been for COVID-19. Science and medicine isn't cut and dry or black and white. There are so many variables to account for that the general public will never understand why a study fails to prove an answer.

Someone earlier pointed out bad data. The only bad data is data that is manipulated to support a theory. That isn't how science works. Ask what happened to Andrew Wakefield. He manipulated data to support his theory that the MMR vaccines cause autism. Hundreds of studies have been published with millions of children and they all show no link between MMR and Autism. He has since lost his license to practice medicine. That is what happens when data is manipulated. I am not going to throw away 12 years of education and 6 years of industry experience to manipulate data.

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is not the answer. This has to be the most politicized medication ever... To date there has been several studies performed that show HCQ really has no benefit. Not even as a prophylaxis.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeli...-recovery-trial-reports-on-hydroxychloroquine
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/06/04/hydroxychloroquine-for-avoiding-infection
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-enough-already
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/19/taking-hydroxychloroquine-may-19-update
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/04/hydroxychloroquine-update-may-4

To set the record straight, I am not a proponent for or against HCQ. I honestly wish it was the answer and I would be willing to bet that all scientists and doctors would agree to that statement. It's cheap and generic. However, there is a substantial risk of QT prolongation on HCQ, which could cause sudden cardiac death. This is a well known side effect of HCQ. Couple that with the known cardiovascular effects of COVID-19 and it just isn't good combination. The studies that show HCQ to be effective are restrospective analysis. There was a study published by Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit. I am sure most are aware of this study. If you are not, here is the link: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220305348?via=ihub This study was a retrospective analysis saying that HCQ has promise. However, if you read the details, all patients were also given dexamethasone, which has been shown to reduce mortality in COVID-19 patients!! more on that in a second. Also, in the conclusions, the authors themselves state “Our results also require further confirmation in prospective, randomized controlled trials that rigorously evaluate the safety, and efficacy of hydroxychloroquine therapy for COVID-19 in hospitalized patients.”

However, another generic medication has shown to be effective, dexamethasone.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2021436
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...dexamethasone-not-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/06/17/dexamethasone-for-coronavirus-infection

However, it's only effective for those in respiratory distress. What is becoming apparent is a biphasic treatment plan is necessary. At first you need an antiviral medication that will slow or shut down viral replication and entry. Then the later stages, if the patient goes into respiratory distress, which is caused by an overactive immune response, you need something to attenuate the immune system, like dexamethasone, a corticosteriod.

Masks: I am not going to go into detail. Most of the public wants to think of this as a political statement or a way for the government to take away your freedom. FYI, if you know anything about science, you wouldn't think that way. Read them or not, I really don't care, but here are several studies that show they are effective at controlling transmission:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5705692/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19522650/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2?ContensisTextOnly=true
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329337/

Just remember that the virus has to be housed in a respiratory droplet or it won't survive. So the mask only has to stop a respiratory droplet to be effective.

Vaccines: I really have no idea why people are scared of vaccines. Some recent studies have shown that up to ~50% of the US wouldn't get the vaccine if one were to become available...Let me ask you do you know someone with Polio or Small Pox or Tetanus or Hepatitis B or Hepatitis A or Diphtheria? My guess is no. These viruses were pretty much eradicated solely due to vaccines. The only reason we have measles outbreaks now is because people don't get the MMR vaccine. Thank you Andrew Wakefield for that...

Vaccines are safe and effective. I personally believe that the people that are anti-vax don't understand science and don't want to take the time to understand science. Don't want to realize that all chemicals are not bad for you. FYI water is a chemical. Your body is made up of atoms of elements found on the periodic table. When combined together, they make chemicals. Proteins are amino acids linked together to form a tertiary structure...DNA is nucleic acids linked together by a ribose backbone...all of these are chemicals. The "stuff" that makes up a vaccine is innocuous and all it does is stimulate you body into making antibodies and memory cells (T-cells and B-cells) so that when you come into contact with that virus your body can do it's job.

No you are not going to get micro chipped by a vaccine. There are several fallacies in that statement alone. First, a microchip will not fit through a vaccine needle. Second, you are not that interesting that the government or anyone else needs to know your whereabouts or personal habits. That information is already available if you own a smartphone or just go shopping in public, or even if you just shop on Amazon. You would be blind to think otherwise.

COVID-19 is just the Flu: This is just a very ignorant statement. First off, we have vaccines for the flu. Second SARS-CoV-2 is much more infectious than the flu, in fact about twice as infectious. Look up the R0 values:
https://journals.lww.com/imd/fulltext/2019/09000/a_severe_seasonal_influenza_epidemic_during.4.aspx
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762510

The lower R0 value for the flu is the reason it tends to fizzle out every year...

The death rate is much higher for COVID-19:
death rate for the H1N1 flu in 2009: 0.01-0..08% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4045999/
death rate for Sars-CoV-2: 1.3% https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00455

In short: it is more infectious and and kills more.

Not enough? We also have a statistic that is called excess deaths. Have you heard of this? I didn't think so. We can look at the number of deaths between certain months of the year. We know that between March 1st and May 31st the US had 122,000 excess deaths this year when compared to previous years. This is actually higher than the reported COVID-19 death toll at that time which was 100,000. That is about 30% more deaths than what would be expected from a normal year. You could explain this a few ways:
1. They could all be from COVID-19. Not likely, but possible
2. Some sould be COVID-19 and the others could be not directly related to COVID-19...Meaning people were too afraid to get medical care they normally would due to fear of hospitals and COVID-19
3. Could be completely unrelated to COVID-19. Again not likely, but possible.

Here is another sobering fact. Traffic deaths and homicides were down due to the US being in quarantine.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/covid-19-and-excess-deaths/

If you think this is detailed, it really isn't. I really didn't dig into the details of any of the scientific data.

It is really a shame that this virus has divided the US the way it has. I honestly believe that if politics were taken out of the argument, the US would be in much better shape. Politics doesn't belong in medicine or science.

I appreciate you taking the time to post this. Thank you

 

[Rich4863]

Havent played since March, leagues cancelled for the year. With my neck & back significantly worse then what it was, Im pondering the possibility of retiring or just waiting til spring to see how I feel.

 

[dunkky]

This whole thing has nothing to do with a lack of knowledge or awareness. What Tony said was right on target. We had a chance to make a difference but we didn't. Simple as that. And we haven't learned anything from the past.

Korea has shown, it can work with very little sacrifice. So are other countries. Except, the mighty U.S. It's pretty embarrassing if you ask me.

 

[hitless45]

Whydo you get to choose who stays home and who doesn't? Why do the people that are concerned with the well being of others have to stay home while the selfish people that only care

Probably cuz he an ump he can say who should stay home.. smh

PEOPLE ARE STUPID
SMOKE

^^^ bingo

I appreciate you taking the time to post this. Thank you

Chembry has explained over and over but it seems that only us (sheep) actually take it for what its worth

 

[r8dr_rider]

Live in a bubble of your scarred. Don’t tell me to wear a mask.

Life’s a risk carnal!

 

[dunkky]

why wouldn't you? what do you get to lose other than potentially saving others' lives including yours and your beloved ones? worst case, no harm done other than being a little uncomfortable.

Is that too much to sacrifice? Just think of this as insurance.

 

[mariagarcia9593]

We have our first game on Friday. We follow this rile:

• No more than 10 players on a team (shouldn’t be a problem because who really thinks it is a perfect idea to bat 14).

 

[Redsfan]

I'm not a fan of the face mask but think of this.. If you don't like going to baseball, football, hockey, or basketball games. Keep not wearing masks. If you never want to go to a movie inside again. Keep not wearing masks. If you hate going to concerts, keep not wearing masks. I could go on but hopefully a light might flicker above the heads of the non masks wearing people.

 

[Chembry]

Science is black and white. That doesn't mean it's easily digestible and can be easily absorbed as black and white by the general public.

I watched the 2011 movie contagion, and while it's fiction and about a much deadlier virus, people were wearing masks instantly, and there weren't any people clamoring against it. That's a good movie to watch right now for a lot of reasons.

Science and medicine are rarely cut and dry. I live it everyday. I agree that the science behind masks is black and white. Most of the experiments you see on social media are performed by individuals whose only science class was in high school. They don't have the knowledge base to correctly design experiments.

Case in point. I saw an experiment "proving" that masks restrict your oxygen levels and social media was loving it. He measured the oxygen levels using an O2 sensor and put it right next to his mouth with and without a mask...That is where you exhale CO2. Of course the oxygen content is going to decrease when you exhale CO2...that is common sense. But that isn't what matters. What is important is the O2 saturation in your blood. That needs to be measure using a pulse oximeter and it has been studied: http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf

Here is a correctly designed study that shows masks limit speech generated respiratory droplets: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2007800

Medicine has individual genetic variabilities to account for and that makes it hard to decipher. When a potential drug fails the question is why and the answer is rarely straight forward. Are they super metabolizers and express high quantities of cyp 450's? Did the drug reach therapeutic concentration? What was the plasma concentration (Cmax)? How long did the drug stay in the persons system? Was the drug given at the correct time course in the disease? I could go on, but suffice to say when a drug doesn't work there are always more questions than answers.

I remember one of my first projects in pharma was trying to identify a chemical species isolated from a persons blood. This one individual had the potential drug reach concentrations in their blood 100 times higher than everyone else. What was the chemical species and why wasn't is eliminated from their body. Talk about a tough problem to answer...

You're correct that science and medicine studies aren't easily digestible. They take time to read them really understand what is going on. Sometimes I have to read studies several times over to really digest all of the information and get to the key takeaways. And yes Contagion is an excellent movie! They had some of the worlds leading experts as technical advisors on payroll for that movie.

I appreciate you taking the time to post this. Thank you

You're welcome!

This whole thing has nothing to do with a lack of knowledge or awareness. What Tony said was right on target. We had a chance to make a difference but we didn't. Simple as that. And we haven't learned anything from the past.

Korea has shown, it can work with very little sacrifice. So are other countries. Except, the mighty U.S. It's pretty embarrassing if you ask me.

The US was destined to fail. We are such a narcissistic society that doesn't care about anyone else but themselves. As soon as the mask and HCQ became political, medicine and science took a back seat. Now, it doesn't matter what data we have to back up masks or HCQ or remdesivir...every study will be labeled as political and has an agenda.

Probably cuz he an ump he can say who should stay home.. smh

^^^ bingo


Chembry has explained over and over but it seems that only us (sheep) actually take it for what its worth

I try but don't think I ever get anywhere...You know the sheep designation works on the opposite side as well. Could use as sheep blindly following pseudoscience and conspiracy theorists.

I'm not a fan of the face mask but think of this.. If you don't like going to baseball, football, hockey, or basketball games. Keep not wearing masks. If you never want to go to a movie inside again. Keep not wearing masks. If you hate going to concerts, keep not wearing masks. I could go on but hopefully a light might flicker above the heads of the non masks wearing people.

Let's be honest, I don't think anyone likes wearing a mask. But you're right, until a vaccine is approved a mask is the only defense we have besides social distancing.

 

[jbo911]

I'm not a fan of the face mask but think of this.. If you don't like going to baseball, football, hockey, or basketball games. Keep not wearing masks. If you never want to go to a movie inside again. Keep not wearing masks. If you hate going to concerts, keep not wearing masks. I could go on but hopefully a light might flicker above the heads of the non masks wearing people.

Do i know for a fact sports will return faster if i wear one? No. Is it worth trying if there's a chance? Hell yes!

R8r's auto correct is so bad i can't even answer his life is carnal posts. I have no idea what he's saying, but I've always assumed he was 80% troll anyway.

 

[Redsfan]

Do i know for a fact sports will return faster if i wear one? No. Is it worth trying if there's a chance? Hell yes!

.

Hoping sports will return to normal is one of the top reasons I wear my mask. The #1 reason I wear it is to not get my 72 year old mom sick. I feel bad for all the kids that didn't get to play any sports this summer and the ones that will miss out on fall sports. Especially the Seniors in HS and College that won't get that opportunity again. My son missed out on having graduation from Ohio State in May. If people could just stop being so stubborn and sacrifice a little now it might just help themselves and others later.

 

[hitless45]

Science and medicine are rarely cut and dry. I live it everyday. I agree that the science behind masks is black and white. Most of the experiments you see on social media are performed by individuals whose only science class was in high school. They don't have the knowledge base to correctly design experiments.

Case in point. I saw an experiment "proving" that masks restrict your oxygen levels and social media was loving it. He measured the oxygen levels using an O2 sensor and put it right next to his mouth with and without a mask...That is where you exhale CO2. Of course the oxygen content is going to decrease when you exhale CO2...that is common sense. But that isn't what matters. What is important is the O2 saturation in your blood. That needs to be measure using a pulse oximeter and it has been studied: http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf

Here is a correctly designed study that shows masks limit speech generated respiratory droplets: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2007800

Medicine has individual genetic variabilities to account for and that makes it hard to decipher. When a potential drug fails the question is why and the answer is rarely straight forward. Are they super metabolizers and express high quantities of cyp 450's? Did the drug reach therapeutic concentration? What was the plasma concentration (Cmax)? How long did the drug stay in the persons system? Was the drug given at the correct time course in the disease? I could go on, but suffice to say when a drug doesn't work there are always more questions than answers.

I remember one of my first projects in pharma was trying to identify a chemical species isolated from a persons blood. This one individual had the potential drug reach concentrations in their blood 100 times higher than everyone else. What was the chemical species and why wasn't is eliminated from their body. Talk about a tough problem to answer...

You're correct that science and medicine studies aren't easily digestible. They take time to read them really understand what is going on. Sometimes I have to read studies several times over to really digest all of the information and get to the key takeaways. And yes Contagion is an excellent movie! They had some of the worlds leading experts as technical advisors on payroll for that movie.



You're welcome!



The US was destined to fail. We are such a narcissistic society that doesn't care about anyone else but themselves. As soon as the mask and HCQ became political, medicine and science took a back seat. Now, it doesn't matter what data we have to back up masks or HCQ or remdesivir...every study will be labeled as political and has an agenda.



I try but don't think I ever get anywhere...You know the sheep designation works on the opposite side as well. Could use as sheep blindly following pseudoscience and conspiracy theorists.



Let's be honest, I don't think anyone likes wearing a mask. But you're right, until a vaccine is approved a mask is the only defense we have besides social distancing.

I totally agree on the opposite side of the sheep following blindly, even more so imo

 

[longball101]

If masks didn't provide some sort of protection/prevention, I am sure the thousands of world renowned Doctors wouldn't wear them hours on end during critical surgeries...they sure seem to breathe alright too me. It's a small price to pay.

 

[longball101]

The last tourny I played in 2 weeks ago, dugouts were limited to 4 players, all others outside, encouraged to wear a mask when not on the field, not high fives or interaction with other team after game...wait in the lot until your game is about to start, arrive just enough time to warm up

 

[jbo911]

Hoping sports will return to normal is one of the top reasons I wear my mask. The #1 reason I wear it is to not get my 72 year old mom sick. I feel bad for all the kids that didn't get to play any sports this summer and the ones that will miss out on fall sports. Especially the Seniors in HS and College that won't get that opportunity again. My son missed out on having graduation from Ohio State in May. If people could just stop being so stubborn and sacrifice a little now it might just help themselves and others later.

If we literally all have to get it, I'm definitely losing one parent, maybe both, most of my in-laws, and probably 20% of the people i work with. I have a friend with a preemie in the hospital, and another with a 3 month oldthat was practically a miracle and is their only child. That's before we even get to my wife and children, who i don't consider high risk. I just don't understand how people can just assume it won't effect them personally.

 

[Chembry]

If we literally all have to get it, I'm definitely losing one parent, maybe both, most of my in-laws, and probably 20% of the people i work with. I have a friend with a preemie in the hospital, and another with a 3 month oldthat was practically a miracle and is their only child. That's before we even get to my wife and children, who i don't consider high risk. I just don't understand how people can just assume it won't effect them personally.

We really don't know if we all have to "get it"...Keep in mind that the original SARS-CoV-1 just disappeared after 1.5 years. Just vanished from the human population. The virus is still around mutating, but for some reason stopped infecting people. General consensus is that it will return at some point in the future. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747533/

Studies have shown that the dose directly correlates to severity:
This study is with the flu virus: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342672/
This study is with coronaviruses: https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa644/5848814
Study from 1918-1919 spanih flu shows that severe disease was 5-8 times higher for army camps than civilian communities: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2909907/

What that means is the more virus you are exposed to, the likelihood of severe disease increases. My point is, you may not lose a parent if the dose they are exposed to isn't large enough. That is if we all have to be exposed. But nobody knows the answer to that question. What if SARS-CoV-2 just disappears like SARS-CoV-1? What if it doesn't?

There are so many more questions that only time will answer. Like long term heath effects...I don't know why anyone would gamble with their life or their loved ones lives.

 

[billvp]

Paraphrasing Benjamin Franklin: Those who would give up liberty to purchase safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

[Redsfan]

Ben was talking about the English not a disease. Just saying....

 

[tonys1]

You have the liberty to jump in front of a moving train, but you don’t do it for your own safety. That doesn’t mean any of that other bull**** in your Shakespearean quote after that though.

 

[hitless45]

LOL!! it just never stops SMH

 

[ju25]

We started playing on 7/5 here in Metro Detroit and my Wednesday night league in Dearborn has been put on Covid protocol as of 8/5. Someone tested positive and league has been suspended til further notice. Only major differences were no handshakes at end of game and not touching first base

 

[TWmccoy]

I love how this board has become all about grown men looking for excuses NOT to play the game they supposedly love. Its really sad and disheartening to see everyone buy the fear narrative and meekly give up on softball for the year.

 

[kj13]

IT ONLY SOFTBALL !!!!!!! In this downtime I’ve been able to double my time with my children. Personally, I think that’s pretty “Grown Man” of me. Find something else to do. It’s a hobby. I can’t remember growing up thinking man I can’t wait till baseball is over and I’m in my 30’s so I can “love” softball.

 

[longball101]

Hopefully the PPE suit doesn't affect my range at 3rd this weekend too much....

 

[hitless45]

Not many have said we're not playing cuz if this crap, some yes not all certainly not me ijs if whoever's ignorant a** isn't respectful enough to wear mask when/where ur supposed too keep ur distance from me and stfu.

Those that do opt not too play it is for very good reason and involves someone in their lives that that they are concerned about, but as usual those that are all about themselves dont understand that.

I had too tell a dumbass to get outa my face lastnight as we were gathering our stuff after our game, tryin to talk too me literally in my face. Yes he's one of THOSE.

 

[jbo911]

I love how this board has become all about grown men looking for excuses NOT to play the game they supposedly love. Its really sad and disheartening to see everyone buy the fear narrative and meekly give up on softball for the year.

I agree with you on most things, but you're so far into the alt-right blogosphere or whatever's got you twisted you can't even see it. Your logic applies literally against your argument, and much more effectively.

I've seen you post that bats are too hot, we all have to go to work on Monday. Now you're saying, who cares if people die, we need to get out on the field. This whole man up, ignore the fear mongering, stand up for your rights, is just fear mongering in the other direction. Are we still Americans if we have to wear masks? Well, yeah, if we drop all this tribal politics and come together like we did after 9/11. Otherwise, the Russians are getting exactly what they wanted this whole time.

I'm not meekly giving up ****. I'm wearing a mask to try and get everything back faster. I'm staying away from people I didn't really care about at the fields anyway to try and keep us from having an outbreak at the fields which will end the year for the rest of the year. I'm doing what I can to play as much as I can , while not sacrificing my family and 10-20% of everyone I know.

It's like the entire country has forgotten that an ounce of prevention is a pound of cure. If a mask can prevent the spread up to 80% you're damned right I'm wearing one, and when the news says 80% of people are wearing them inside they mean in the damned grocery store. We're not wearing them in our damned houses by ourselves. Everyone, on both sides of this country, need to give others a little more benefit of the doubt, and use a lot more common sense.

 

[jbo911]

Not many have said we're not playing cuz if this crap, some yes not all certainly not me ijs if whoever's ignorant a** isn't respectful enough to wear mask when/where ur supposed too keep ur distance from me and stfu.

Those that do opt not too play it is for very good reason and involves someone in their lives that that they are concerned about, but as usual those that are all about themselves dont understand that.

I had too tell a dumbass to get outa my face lastnight as we were gathering our stuff after our game, tryin to talk too me literally in my face. Yes he's one of THOSE.

It's hard enough to field a team, and it has been for the past 20 years. Anyone saying differently hasn't tried to run a team. This is just another, and a very big reason, for people to say I'm going to focus on my kids/family/basically anything else in the world. I can't speak for any other areas, but covid certainly hasn't deterred any of the questionable bat swinging, ooping as they blow middle, talking trash if they ever make an out and blaming everyone on the planet but themselves assholes from coming out to play. That is going to kill participation more than any pandemic. Hell, this pandemic might spike participation once it's gone because everyone will appreciates it more.

 

[hitless45]

It's hard enough to field a team, and it has been for the past 20 years. Anyone saying differently hasn't tried to run a team. This is just another, and a very big reason, for people to say I'm going to focus on my kids/family/basically anything else in the world. I can't speak for any other areas, but covid certainly hasn't deterred any of the questionable bat swinging, ooping as they blow middle, talking trash if they ever make an out and blaming everyone on the planet but themselves assholes from coming out to play. That is going to kill participation more than any pandemic. Hell, this pandemic might spike participation once it's gone because everyone will appreciates it more.

I agree on the participation (or lack of) our LD keeps saying our leagues are bigger (more teams)than ever, its a damn lie, when i started playing 35+ years ago our leagues were fill every night of the week except for Saturdays with 14 teams per division and 3 or 4 divisions per night, now they struggle to get more than 4 or 5 teams per night/division. And yes the dumb crap sandbaggin bs has not been detoured much here either, we have those travel teams that play rec league (to get some swings in) umm ok, that itself is why participation is down around here. Personally i dont care who we play i know all of them, playes with some of them but where there are team that are truly rec teams they get beat up for a season sometimes two and say screw it.