ASA How To Call an Illegal Pitch?

MonsterBash

Lancaster (Buffalo) NY
Last night in our ASA game the umpire (behind the plate) didn't have any verbal call out for an illegal pitch. Just the hand motion.

I 'thought' I remember reading here that this method is 'legal' to call this way...but for obvious reasons...a verbal call out is preferred.

So the question is does a HP umpire need to make the verbal callout? Another umpire in the league I spoke with at the bar said the verbal call out is required

Anyone?

Ironically the umpire what the head of the city's softball organization
 

Katzy63

The Veteran
Been awhile since I've called ASA, but I know in USSSA the minimum requirement is the hand signal. Verbally calling out the illegal pitch is a courtesy to the batter. Back in the day when teams remained in their dugouts without being told to, and always had the batter on deck in the circle as they should be, the on deck batter would say "illegal, flat, high, etc..." when the signal was given. We referred to this as team work back then. Team work doesn't exist anymore, and the umpire is blamed for swinging at an illegal pitch because the batter can't hear anything over the 13 players standing outside of the dugout screaming at the blue about a pitches height before the pitch is delivered.
 

fitzpats

AKA - The Anti Ringer
If I remember correctly, the ASA umps on here have said numerous times that the verbal call is not required. It is common practice, but not required. I have also heard that he verbal call is not allowed in NSA, and the pitch is not declared illegal until after it crosses the plate. Also, I know that I've never seen anything in the ASA rulebook that states that a verbal call is necessary.
 

spos21ram

The Legend
USSSA there is no call at all until after the pitch has landed. And then the umpire simply calls it a ball and will say "bring it up" or "bring it down".
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Been awhile since I've called ASA, but I know in USSSA the minimum requirement is the hand signal. Verbally calling out the illegal pitch is a courtesy to the batter.

Can you show me where this requirement exists? In the rulebook it specifically forbids calling a pitch unfairly delivered until after it crosses the plate.
EFFECT Sec. 9. A-E. In each case, an unfairly delivered ball shall be declared a ball by the
umpire provided, however, that if the batter strikes at any unfairly delivered pitch, it shall be
declared a strike with no penalty for the unfairly delivered pitch. The ball remains in play if
batted by the batter.
NOTE Sec. 9. A-E. These unfairly delivered pitches may not be so declared until the pitched
ball reaches or crosses the plate.
Assuming we are talking slow pitch here.
 

Katzy63

The Veteran
You're right and I should have proofread what I had as I was doing three things at once while being scolded by the Mrs's for spending money on new bats while telling the youngest I couldn't afford to put gas in my truck for him to use lol... SMH!

ASA is a hand gesture with the verbal being a "courtesy" while USSSA is no call until the ball hits the ground. I do a lot of USSSA with modified rules to resemble SCMAF, which is an abomination and a pain in the rear at times.
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans

BigSam

Addicted to Softballfans
Calling illegal is a constant battle for me. It is worst for me with the good pitchers who throw 9-10 regularly then go 10-11 when they are ahead. It is hard as hell to see, hard to call, and it pisses off batters to no end if you don't call it. The occasional low pitch from good pitchers is tough too since you aren't mentally prepared for that flat pitch. I do my very best to call illegal as soon as I see it. Sometimes that doesn't happen.

This year I decided that a pitch right on the 10' ceiling that I don't see clearly as illegal I won't call a strike. The batter doesn't get the benefit of knowing in advance, but the pitcher doesn't get the strike call. After 25ish games this year this has been received positively by both pitchers and hitters. In a perfect world I would see the top of the zone like an eagle, but that just isn't the case. Small adjustments make us better.
 

Illegal pitcher

The Veteran
Calling illegal is a constant battle for me. It is worst for me with the good pitchers who throw 9-10 regularly then go 10-11 when they are ahead. It is hard as hell to see, hard to call, and it pisses off batters to no end if you don't call it.

My league is 6' to 16', so it's funny to me that batters would whine about an 11' pitch. That's pretty much the ideal height for hitting, IMHO. But, maybe that's just because I'm so used to hitting 15' or 16' pitches.
 

bimmerpilot

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You're right and I should have proofread what I had as I was doing three things at once while being scolded by the Mrs's for spending money on new bats while telling the youngest I couldn't afford to put gas in my truck for him to use lol... SMH!

ASA is a hand gesture with the verbal being a "courtesy" while USSSA is no call until the ball hits the ground. I do a lot of USSSA with modified rules to resemble SCMAF, which is an abomination and a pain in the rear at times.

You're telling us :rolleyes:

oh wait, you were referring to the rules :p
 

Crabby Bob

Addicted to Softballfans
...
ASA is a hand gesture with the verbal being a "courtesy" while USSSA is no call until the ball hits the ground. I do a lot of USSSA with modified rules to resemble SCMAF, which is an abomination and a pain in the rear at times.

Speaking ASA slow pitch: how is the batter to know it's illegal unless the verbal is given? All action stands if the batter swings or contacts an illegal pitch.
 

MonsterBash

Lancaster (Buffalo) NY
Is this from the ASA book? If so it would answer my question

Can you show me where this requirement exists? In the rulebook it specifically forbids calling a pitch unfairly delivered until after it crosses the plate.


EFFECT Sec. 9. A-E. In each case, an unfairly delivered ball shall be declared a ball by the
umpire provided, however, that if the batter strikes at any unfairly delivered pitch, it shall be
declared a strike with no penalty for the unfairly delivered pitch. The ball remains in play if
batted by the batter.
NOTE Sec. 9. A-E. These unfairly delivered pitches may not be so declared until the pitched
ball reaches or crosses the plate.

Assuming we are talking slow pitch here.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
That is from the USSSA book.

For the ASA mechanic I'd certainly pay attention to Irishmafia's post above.
 

Katzy63

The Veteran
You're telling us :rolleyes:

oh wait, you were referring to the rules :p

How'd you guys do last night? I tried getting your game, but was actually more than happy doing Rookie Championship games all night lol. :rolleyes:

And yeah, our rule set is a pain in the ******* rear as you well know ;)
 

MrWilliams

The Veteran
At a recent ASA national slowpitch tournament, at the coaches meeting the UIC stated that illegal pitches would be called using the arm mechanic and a verbal call, one loud enough for the batter and catcher to hear.

During the games this procedure was generally followed, though one umpire was very quiet and often late with the call, resulting in no benefit to the batter. :(

(edited for clarity)
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
At a recent ASA national slowpitch tournament, at the coaches meeting the UIC stated that illegal pitches would be called using the arm mechanic and a verbal call, one loud enough for the batter and catcher to hear.

During the games this procedure was generally followed, though one umpire was very quiet and often late with the call, resulting in no benefit to the batter. :(

(edited for clarity)

Well, that must have been in Medford, OR @ the Seniors NC since that is the only ASA National SP tournament this year.

However, that is a strange statement to make at a coach's meeting unless he was asked about it.
 

MrWilliams

The Veteran
It was at the ASA National Youth SP tournament in North Mankato, MN (girls 12/14/16), held this weekend.

Yes, the UIC explained this in response to a question.
 
During the games this procedure was generally followed, though one umpire was very quiet and often late with the call, resulting in no benefit to the batter.

I would imagine it can be tough to get it "verbal" out early as we are talking 11 and 12 year old girls pitching from 43 feet and throwing low liners. As a mens player I would rather not hear it then hear it right as we swing.

I guess my point is, all things considered, you are nit-picking just a bit, as you stated over 1 umpire.
 

MrWilliams

The Veteran
Overall I think it went well -from what I could see the players had fun, most games were competitive, it was a very nice venue, and the tournament was well-run. The weather was unseasonably cold though, with the overnight lows around 45 deg & windy - no fun if you have an 8:00am game!

Since this is an umpiring forum :) : Most of the umpires were quite good, with consistent strike zones and base calls, worked with the coaches well, and kept the games moving along.

I think the biggest issue was the pitch arc/speed - most of the teams play under USSSA and did the tournament because it hasn't been held in this area for some time. At the coach meeting the UIC did a good job explaining the ASA pitch standard but this wasn't followed consistently by the umpires; some were strict about the higher arc, some weren't, one guy was allowing USSSA-style flatter/faster pitches; even allowing for the normal umpire's discretion it varied too much.

But as I said, the girls had fun and that's the most important thing!
 

redruram

Addicted to Softballfans
In reading this, I umpired in our town’s local Sunday Night Coed League last night. Now granted the only thing associated with USSSA is the bats they use. I was always have seen others call “high pitch or call out flat“. Now also these are “volunteer umpires“ guys from the teams in the league. I had one player tell me that I should not verbally call out high or flat pitches. Just point if is to high and call it a ball if it is flat.

I’m sorry this is not a “sanction league” it’s a Sunday Night Coed Beer League. I need some help in this matter. Thanks
 

ureout

The Veteran
it definitely depends on what assn. rules you are going by.. you mentoined USSSA .. they wait until pitch has been delivered and then say unfairly delivered if it was an illegal pitch and if the batter did not hit the pitch
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
In other rule sets, the umpire declares the pitch "illegal" (states it just loud enough for the batter to hear) and elevates
the left arm to be parallel to the ground. If the batter attempts to hit the ball, the IP ruling is dropped. Otherwise, the pitch is ruled a ball on the batter.
 

rmp0012002

Addicted to Softballfans
The arm movement could come across as not being illegal but the ball was flat or came across high for why it wasn’t called a strike. A verbal call let’s everyone know clearly.
 
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