How to tell in nonlinear?

34blast

Addicted to Softballfans
Dumb question, I will be playing ASA. I have not played ASA IN LIKE 15 years. I think from reading I want a non linear bat. Are all the approved ASA BATS nonlinear?
I was gifted a Jeff Hall 454 Worth with modern ASA stamp. I think it is 2013 model. Is that nonlinear or are all of the modern ASA nonlinear?
 

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
Just about all asa/usa bats today are nonlinear, there are a few dual/multi stamp bats from recent past that are not.. if you're buying from a dealer/site it will be clear in description whether or not it is nonlinear.. I should have mentioned,nonlinear bats are labeled as divergence tech/inner barrel/floating barrel etc

No your 2013 jh 454 is not nonlinear
 
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Protectyaneck

Active Member
You can count on one hand the number of USA only linear bats still being produced. Juggy, Mercy, Suncoast Backlash.
 

ShortYellowBus

Well-Known Member
Just to clear the air. Non linear bats are for newbies. Linear bats are for pro level swings.

Non linear bats are for players who have low swing/below average swing speeds.
 

34blast

Addicted to Softballfans
Just to clear the air. Non linear bats are for newbies. Linear bats are for pro level swings.

Non linear bats are for players who have low swing/below average swing speeds.
Sorry, I'm unable to tell if you are serious or not

All the youtube videos I have seen, even those with very high swing speeds show a nonlinear bat with higher exist velocity for the 52 / 300
 

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
Sorry, I'm unable to tell if you are serious or not

All the youtube videos I have seen, even those with very high swing speeds show a nonlinear bat with higher exist velocity for the 52 / 300
It is debatable I suppose. some say they are made/work better with lower swing speed but I see it in person, guy's that absolutely smash (high swing speeds) that just kill with nonlinear bats
 

34blast

Addicted to Softballfans
Which nonlinear bat, would you choose?
I hit maybe 1 HR every third game in USSSA. I hit to right or RC regularly on purpose as well and shoot the gap. I a not overly particular about end load, probably a slight endload. The ASA league the coach tends to use the ball over and over and over. so it is pretty mushy. USSSA I use Easton FF, z2000 OG EL. Both work well for me

I see 2 recommended USA bats (would either be good?)
Mike Freak Primo - Maxload (not balanced or supermax)
2022 DeMarini Nihilist OG 13" mid load

 

Protectyaneck

Active Member
Familiar thread. I remember when it used to be called "What's the best ASA bat for the .52?".

Ask a dozen people, get a dozen different answers. But with the two bats you have listed, i'd pick the Freak over the Nihilist. Swung them both, Miken produced better results. Dont see a whole lot of people swinging the Nihilist. Demar diehards around me are swinging older flippers, Juggys, and Mercys.

But I would try as many as you can, don't limit yourself to just those two. Krechers, Monstas, Anarchys, they all swing different but do the same thing.
 

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
Familiar thread. I remember when it used to be called "What's the best ASA bat for the .52?".

Ask a dozen people, get a dozen different answers. But with the two bats you have listed, i'd pick the Freak over the Nihilist. Swung them both, Miken produced better results. Dont see a whole lot of people swinging the Nihilist. Demar diehards around me are swinging older flippers, Juggys, and Mercys.

But I would try as many as you can, don't limit yourself to just those two. Krechers, Monstas, Anarchys, they all swing different but do the same thing.
Precisely why I wouldn't say what bat (I) would suggest I am particular to demarini, yes I still swing my 15 usam, the miken you suggested may not work well for op either I would also suggest trying as many as possible
 

34blast

Addicted to Softballfans
The ASA team I play on is a bunch of cheapskates. So there are really not much to try and I am sure nothing nonlinear. I will probably just buy something used and give it a shot. The flipper had a rep as a mushball killer and good for 52 300, why I thought of nihilist. My understanding is nihilist is the flipper replacement. Primo should be like a worth and many around to buy used.


But anyway, I do want to try nonlinear and see how it compares to older Jeff Hall
 
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ShortYellowBus

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I'm unable to tell if you are serious or not

All the youtube videos I have seen, even those with very high swing speeds show a nonlinear bat with higher exist velocity for the 52 / 300
Exit velocity is a good indicator of performance, but people are changing their swings and shooting at the ground to get higher numbers.
Although you might see heavily edited videos of bat reps taking hacks and think that’s representative of the bat’s performance, the internet is full of misinformation. Bat hound says the sinister is the best bat ever but the BP Hero disagrees. Both are reps with vastly different swings...
BP Hero has been around longer and he lets other guys with different swings demonstrate what a bat can do.

Non linear bats have a built in restrictor. That is what it does. If you take out the restrictor the bat is hotter, and it becomes a linear bat.
 

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
The ASA team I play on is a bunch of cheapskates. So there are really not much to try and I am sure nothing nonlinear. I will probably just buy something used and give it a shot. The flipper had a rep as a mushball killer and good for 52 300, why I thought of nihilist. My understanding is nihilist is the flipper replacement. Primo should be like a worth and many around to buy used.


But anyway, I do want to try nonlinear and see how it compares to older Jeff Hall
^^what weight are you looking for.. there is a nice looking flipper in this thread, it is 30oz tho
 

CANEinVAIN

New Member
Dumb question, I will be playing ASA. I have not played ASA IN LIKE 15 years. I think from reading I want a non linear bat. Are all the approved ASA BATS nonlinear?
I was gifted a Jeff Hall 454 Worth with modern ASA stamp. I think it is 2013 model. Is that nonlinear or are all of the modern ASA nonlinear?
It’s possible someone already answered this, I’m late to the game but linear basically means no internal technology like FIB (floating inner Barrell) or marketing buzzword gimmicks inside the bat. So a Juggy is linear but flippers are nonlinear and will test at different compression as noted on the bat). Sometimes you can tell just by the sound. Mikens and Worths have sleeves that increase rigidity in the barrel and also sound diff when hitting or even when hitting the ground whereas Juggys have a more solid thump. Both linear and non linear bats are excellent it’s just that one adds internal technology that makes buyers think they’re getting something special. Ironically, if you remove that technology the bat can get even hotter because there’s nothing there keeping the Barrell stiff. Hope this helped.
 

ShortYellowBus

Well-Known Member
The non linear tech refers to a restrictor inside the barrel.

The restrictor in the barrel allows the outer walls to be thinner and still pass compression. Compression testing measures the amount of compression needed on a particular spot on the barrel to flex to a certain level. The restrictor stops the barrel from flexing too much. The more the barrels flex, the more performance is assumed.

How does this help performance. Good question.

The guys with baby swings don’t hit the barrel hard enough to fully depress into the restriction device inside the barrel, which means the bat barrel flexes like a trampoline and adds performance.

A strong guy will bash the thin walls into the restrictor which pushes the restrictor violently into the opposite wall of the barrel and since the bat has no more flex, it snaps. The owner of Monsta has posted on social media that his bats are for guys who have slower swing speeds. Not everyone has the same swing, so not all bats work for all people.
 

Protectyaneck

Active Member
How does this help performance. Good question.

The guys with baby swings don’t hit the barrel hard enough to fully depress into the restriction device inside the barrel, which means the bat barrel flexes like a trampoline and adds performance.

A strong guy will bash the thin walls into the restrictor which pushes the restrictor violently into the opposite wall of the barrel and since the bat has no more flex, it snaps. The owner of Monsta has posted on social media that his bats are for guys who have slower swing speeds. Not everyone has the same swing, so not all bats work for all people.
I have read this many times, so i assume its true.

But in upper level ASA, there are no "baby swings". And everybody swings non-linear, because thats all thats really available anymore. And the balls are still crushed.

I think a more precise, accurate statement would be, guys with baby swings will benefit more from the non linear stuff, due to thinner walls and lighter weights. But no matter what, ball hit hard, ball go far, regardless of the bat.
 

ShortYellowBus

Well-Known Member
There’s a difference in psi compression thresholds. Composite that has a passing threshold of 800 psi compression is very different from a 1300 psi compression threshold bat.

…not all bats are the same, which is why I recommend that people swing different bats to find what works best.

Eventually more linear bats will be used at the highest levels of USA softball, if not already. Who actually knows how much variance the pro issue bats have to the bats we buy.

The guys in the late 90’s blasted 485ft bombs swinging 30oz aluminum bats. How many of todays so called pro softball guys these days could hang with those guys?
 

Protectyaneck

Active Member
…not all bats are the same, which is why I recommend that people swing different bats to find what works best.
Swing the same, no. Swing what feels best, like you say. But I’d argue with a few variances here or there, all modern Asa bats have close to the same ceiling, performance wise.

The guys in the late 90’s blasted 485ft bombs swinging 30oz aluminum bats. How many of todays so called pro softball guys these days could hang with those guys?

Eh. Debatable. I think Tiger Woods could hang with Arnold Palmer, and vice versa. Not apples to apples, but you get my drift.
 
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