Illegal bats in ASA

[lindino08]

Opinion:-- What percentage of teams do you think have illegal bats (Shaved Rolled, etc)

It seems every other week we run into a team that just has a bat that sounds completely different and the ball seems to noticeably come off the bat much hotter. I dislike how easy it is to buy a bat online for a few extra bucks and have it shaved or rolled. I personally wouldn't be against ASA leagues providing bats.

From my experience it seems it's around the 50% mark. :\

 

[jf2k4]

In league? 50% is probably right.

In tournaments I assume everyone has a dirty bat in case you need that home run late in the game.

 

[Bubaloo]

old asa 2004 bats maybe, the new asa bats you cant really shave without durability issues. I play in an outlaw league where we use whatever bat no rules, shaved ultras whatever. But my buddy got a shaved derby boys and it cracked in less then 25 swings. i had a good laugh. The new standard i think will stop the shaved bats as time progresses the bats are already hot, plus the new ball it wont matter anyway.

 

[015reddog]

What? People cheat in ASA League? Say it ain't so.

 

[The BP Hero]

What's a shaved bat?

 

[Bubaloo]

Not sure if serious...

 

[sjury]

In rec leagues, I'll bet it's very little. I sub in a few and some teams have one or two composite bats and most still swing metal. In the more competitive leagues everyone knows everyone and I'll bet the % is still lower then what you would think, but at tourneys I bet almost every team has played the Sammy Sosa, oops, that's my HR derby bat, how did that get on the fence?

 

[rhound50]

Can we please get a few more shaved bats posts, this is a topic that needs to covered and rarely gets any attention.

 

[Beast28]

Just assume it's 100%. Then stop worrying so much and go out there and make a play. Too many guys get engulfed by this and it's all they think about. It consumes some guys, don't be that guy.

 

[Gamble]

By rule neither shaved or rolled bats are illegal. Altered and illegal are two very different things.

 

[Gishdream]

I guess I am naive.

 

[VMI97]

I think every team everywhere has "dirty" sticks, esp in so cal, it's that one stick that everyone uses and hits 350 ft. lazy fly balls w/ a crappy swing, the small to the big, they all hit it out....but what to do but call them cheaters, it's why limited HR rules and "e" level at bld takes out the long ball, it helps but IF zippers are pretty nasty too.

 

[batrater]

0% in our league.
If illegal bats bother you, join a metal league.

 

[lindino08]

Just assume it's 100%. Then stop worrying so much and go out there and make a play. Too many guys get engulfed by this and it's all they think about. It consumes some guys, don't be that guy.

So you wouldn't care at all if every team you played against had an illegal modified bat, while your team is playing by the rules? What would be the point of even playing? I used an illegal bat once last year, a sub brought it and said it was hot. I decided to give it a shot. Went 3-3 with 3 towering bombs. Wasn't even fun so I stopped using it after that game. The only reason I don't worry that much about it is because most people that use an illegal bat are garbage to begin with.

 

[lindino08]

By rule neither shaved or rolled bats are illegal. Altered and illegal are two very different things.

Please explain? Unless I am not understanding this correctly, "shaving" your bat is an alteration that increases ball speed off of the bat which therefore makes the bat illegal in most leagues.

 

[Braveheart23]

I think every team everywhere has "dirty" sticks, esp in so cal, it's that one stick that everyone uses and hits 350 ft. lazy fly balls w/ a crappy swing, the small to the big, they all hit it out....but what to do but call them cheaters, it's why limited HR rules and "e" level at bld takes out the long ball, it helps but IF zippers are pretty nasty too.

My team has 0 "dirty" sticks... we do have a j3a that big small short and tall seem to hit 300+' lazy fly balls with.. Maybe 300 hits on the thing, maybe. Id say just stop worrying about it unless you know 100% for sure.. Then call it out before your P or IF gets drilled. Regardless you still have to hit the ball to win

 

[u234bob]

Why are ppl always whining about shaved bats? Very small % are shaved.

 

[Gamble]

Please explain? Unless I am not understanding this correctly, "shaving" your bat is an alteration that increases ball speed off of the bat which therefore makes the bat illegal in most leagues.

There's nothing to explain. An altered bat is one that is altered. An illegal bat is one that is illegal. They don't overlap. Illegal and altered both have precise, explicit definitions in the rulebook; an illegal bat is not simply "any bat you aren't allowed to use."

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

ALTERED BAT: When the physical structure of a legal softball bat has been
changed.

ILLEGAL BAT: A bat that does not meet the requirements of an official bat or warmup
bat.

 

[lindino08]

There's nothing to explain. An altered bat is one that is altered. An illegal bat is one that is illegal. They don't overlap. Illegal and altered both have precise, explicit definitions in the rulebook; an illegal bat is not simply "any bat you aren't allowed to use."

I wasn't talking about any bat. I was talking about modified bats. Seems to me that they perfectly overlap. If a bat in a league isn't legal by the specifications before or after any alterations the bat can only be in one category "illegal".

"If the original bat had the ASA certification stamp (indicating batted-ball speed below 98-mph), the modified bat now well exceeds the ASA performance limit and is now illegal. The change in the composite bat is even more dramatic. Starting with a production model bat and shaving off 4 plies on the inner diameter increases the batted-ball speed by 6.5-mph. This bat, which originally came in just under the 98-mph limit now drastically exceeds the limit, with a measured batted-ball speed of 104-mph.
The bar chart at right shows the measured change in performance for several aluminum and composite slow-pitch softball bats both before and after sending them to a bat doctor for shaving.[9,10] The bats labeled "MAxx" are multi-walled aluminum bats and those labeled "MCxx" are multi-walled composite bats. The batted-ball speed for very single bat improved by at least 2-mph, with some bats improving by almost 8-mph. The ASA performance limit is 98 mph, and every single one of these doctored bats exceeds this upper limit after being shaved. In other words, every one of these altered bats is now illegal.
Just to put an 8-mph increase in performance in performance in perspective, the difference between a softball leaving a bat at 98-mph and a softball leaving a bat at 106-mph is about 62 feet in additional distance traveled."

http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats/doctored.html

 

[itheshow]

now lets start testing for performance enhancing drugs to play league

 

[Beast28]

now lets start testing for performance enhancing drugs to play league

I have friends in my league on the GAS. Not just for ball tho, they are gym heads.

 

[chrometip78]

I don't swing dirty, my Juice has an ASA stamp.

 

[dttruax]

ALTERED BAT: When the physical structure of a legal softball bat has been
changed.

ILLEGAL BAT: A bat that does not meet the requirements of an official bat or warmup bat.

Don't for get about NON-APPROVED bats. As you know, the penalty for entering the batter's box and/or using an altered or non-approved bat is the batter is out AND ejected. If the batter enters the box and/or uses an illegal bat, the batter is just out.

 

[Gamble]

I wasn't talking about any bat. I was talking about modified bats. Seems to me that they perfectly overlap. If a bat in a league isn't legal by the specifications before or after any alterations the bat can only be in one category "illegal".

"If the original bat had the ASA certification stamp (indicating batted-ball speed below 98-mph), the modified bat now well exceeds the ASA performance limit and is now illegal. The change in the composite bat is even more dramatic. Starting with a production model bat and shaving off 4 plies on the inner diameter increases the batted-ball speed by 6.5-mph. This bat, which originally came in just under the 98-mph limit now drastically exceeds the limit, with a measured batted-ball speed of 104-mph.
The bar chart at right shows the measured change in performance for several aluminum and composite slow-pitch softball bats both before and after sending them to a bat doctor for shaving.[9,10] The bats labeled "MAxx" are multi-walled aluminum bats and those labeled "MCxx" are multi-walled composite bats. The batted-ball speed for very single bat improved by at least 2-mph, with some bats improving by almost 8-mph. The ASA performance limit is 98 mph, and every single one of these doctored bats exceeds this upper limit after being shaved. In other words, every one of these altered bats is now illegal.
Just to put an 8-mph increase in performance in performance in perspective, the difference between a softball leaving a bat at 98-mph and a softball leaving a bat at 106-mph is about 62 feet in additional distance traveled."

http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats/doctored.html

No. You're not listening. This is not a matter of opinion, each term has a precise definition that isn't open to truthiness. An altered bat is not the same as an illegal bat (or non-approved bat), regardless of how many unofficial websites you quote. The rulebook makes it very clear.

 

[GT Yankee]

Why are ppl always whining about shaved bats? Very small % are shaved.

I very respectfully disagree. I think much of it has to do with where you are located. Out here in Cali it seems to be rampant. I've been picked up by enough teams and used bats that I'm familiar with only to find them well outperform the usual standard of their model/make. That's at least my experience at Big League Dreams. The umpires there won't let you use the new White Ultra, but so many obviously shaved bats are not an issue. The only part that really frustrates me is that you can spend $400 and up on a new/minty OG Ext or Flex or buy a shaved bat on the cheap for half that amount that outperforms either. All a matter of ethics IMO.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Don't for get about NON-APPROVED bats. As you know, the penalty for entering the batter's box and/or using an altered or non-approved bat is the batter is out AND ejected. If the batter enters the box and/or uses an illegal bat, the batter is just out.

Very true.....I should have pointed that out. Especially the differences in penalties.

 

[lindino08]

No. You're not listening. This is not a matter of opinion, each term has a precise definition that isn't open to truthiness. An altered bat is not the same as an illegal bat (or non-approved bat), regardless of how many unofficial websites you quote. The rulebook makes it very clear.

Ok, I guess I am in the wrong per what the rule book states.. My mind just doesn't want to agree with how the rules are constructed.

 

[spartanmikek]

Why are ppl always whining about shaved bats? Very small % are shaved.

I also respectfully completely disagree. I play in a Scottsdale league where the LD (who is a great guy) bought a tester and the number of altered bats was HUGE. I absolutely love playing in this league now. Its hilarious, it went from teams hitting hr limits every night to now it almost never happens. I think the number is much larger then people think. I would bet 80% of teams have at least one dirty bat in their dugout. Even if the guy I quoted is correct the % of bats that are shaved is irrelevant, we have all played teams where 8 guys swing the same bat.

 

[dttruax]

I also respectfully completely disagree. I play in a Scottsdale league where the LD (who is a great guy) bought a tester and the number of altered bats was HUGE. I absolutely love playing in this league now. Its hilarious, it went from teams hitting hr limits every night to now it almost never happens. I think the number is much larger then people think. I would bet 80% of teams have at least one dirty bat in their dugout. Even if the guy I quoted is correct the % of bats that are shaved is irrelevant, we have all played teams where 8 guys swing the same bat.

except that testers don't only discover altered bats. they could just be well broken in and not pass compression. and I've heard of newly shaved bats passing compression.