USSSA Infield Fly Call Almost cost us playoff game

ARay1122

The Rookie
We were in the 6th inning against an undefeated team in the semifinals. So there was not much room for error. We were down a few runs and we had runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs. Our batter hit a pop fly and immediately the umpire mistakenly called infield fly. Lets just say the ball ended up landing well into the outfield and their right fielder slipped and the ball dropped. We have 2 umpires on the field so I asked them to have a conference to talk it over. The field umpire said the call was wrong,but the plate umpire made the call and they can not change it. I am a former umpire myself so I try to take it easy on the umps,but this was a horrible call during an important game. Should the umpires have changed the call or acknowledge that they made a mistake and not fix it immediately? We did end up winning the game by a run so I got over the call,but the plate umpire came to me after the game and apologized for making the call. What do you guys think should have happened in this situation?
 

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
After the two umpires huddled up to discuss this, if the plate umpire realized that he made a mistake he should have corrected it. Rule 10 clearly gives the umpires the right- and responsibility- to do that.

Now you get into kind of a grey area as far as what exactly the right "fix" should be. There's no set solution and whatever they come up with is strictly up to their judgment. The goal should be to find a solution that best matches the most likely outcome of the play had the correct call been made in the first place.

That might depend on how the players reacted to the call and the play at hand. And keep in mind that the call may have disadvantaged the defense, affecting their decision on which play to make, as well as the offense.

On a fly ball, I would imagine that the runners were tagging up. If the infield fly had not been called, would the defense have had a reasonable shot at getting a force out after the ball was dropped? If so, then the call disadvantged the defense and you need to take that into consideration. They may have given up on getting an easy force out, thinking none were available, due to this call. If that was the case, then the solution might be to enforce the out that was most likely to have been made and allow the advance of the other runners.

After the ball dropped in the outfield, did the runners advance with no problem and would they have advanced no matter if the infield fly was called or not? Then you might just keep the batter at first and leave everybody else on the base they reached.

Either way, you want to come up with a solution that reasonably duplicates what the outcome of the play most likely would have been had the infield fly not been called. That could spin off in a lot of different directions depending on where the ball was, how the players reacted and what else happened on the play.
 
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johnsonrod

Starting Player
and dont forget that its possible that the OFer could have let up a little when hearing the IFR called.

just out of curiosity, how close was the 2B to the ball?
 

Fin09

Addicted to Softballfans
Remember, too, that the ball doesn't need to land in the infield for the rule to apply. If the umpire thought the infielder had a play with reasonable effort, the call is the right one. There's no hard set rule on how far past the infield the ball can travel in this case. This sounds like one I'd like to see before saying if the call was right or wrong.
 

VF500Racer

Addicted to Softballfans
In real life softball games, the Infield FLY rule is designed for any pop up
in the dirt or extremely near infield, hence the name.
IF the ball was most likely to have a play on it by OF,
then it's not an IF Fly Out.

If the UMP jumped the gun and the ball landed in RF,
as NC would say, "Protest"...;)
 

rhound50

Rec Coed Superstar
Fin made the point I was going to make. IFF does not have to land on the infield and the ball doesn't have to be only to an infielder. The correct fix to this problem depends on where the ball landed and where the other players were stationed. Unless the ball landed for a clean single where it was clean no one was going to come close to catching it I think the correct ruling is to enforce the IFF call. The IFF call can be a really tough one because its 100% subjective and constitutes reasonable effort can be vastly different for each player.
 

Lurker765

Addicted to Softballfans
Fin made the point I was going to make. IFF does not have to land on the infield and the ball doesn't have to be only to an infielder. The correct fix to this problem depends on where the ball landed and where the other players were stationed. Unless the ball landed for a clean single where it was clean no one was going to come close to catching it I think the correct ruling is to enforce the IFF call. The IFF call can be a really tough one because its 100% subjective and constitutes reasonable effort can be vastly different for each player.

INFIELD FLY: A fair fly ball, not including a line drive or an attempted bunt which can be caught by an infielder, pitcher or catcher with ordinary effort when first and second or first, second and third bases are occupied with less than two outs.

The infield fly rule is subjective and it seems that the umpires in my area err on the side of calling an out.

In our last game of the season our shortstop made a running catch with his back to the infield in a full sprint and the ump called it an infield fly.

A coed game earlier this year also had a woman hit a line drive that the outfielder short hopped on the ground on a dead sprint towards the infield while the runners on first and second advanced on the play. The umpire called it an infield fly and a triple play since he said the runners could not advance without tagging even though the ball was not caught in the air (he actually changed his mind after we complained loudly enough).

The 'ordinary effort' part of the infield fly is the tough part of this call.
 

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
For the record, I have NEVER seen anyone attempt to turn a double play on an uncalled IF. I also think it is called too often and sometimes too quickly.

If it's 30' in the air and headed straight for an infielder, call it quick. If the infielder if running back 30' toward the outfield, let it play out, he's not going to get a cheap DP out of it. Also, if it's going to land between the old pitcher and the fat catcher, let it play out a bit just for laughs. :)
 

Dogue

Evil Genius
For the record, I have NEVER seen anyone attempt to turn a double play on an uncalled IF. I also think it is called too often and sometimes too quickly.
I have. A routine pop to SS and no infield fly call made by ump so the SS dropped the ball, tagged the guy on second and stepped on second for a DP.

I agree that it's often over-called. I've seen more nearly uncatchable flys called infield fly than the lone example above.
 

rhound50

Rec Coed Superstar
INFIELD FLY: A fair fly ball, not including a line drive or an attempted bunt which can be caught by an infielder, pitcher or catcher with ordinary effort when first and second or first, second and third bases are occupied with less than two outs.

The infield fly rule is subjective and it seems that the umpires in my area err on the side of calling an out.

In our last game of the season our shortstop made a running catch with his back to the infield in a full sprint and the ump called it an infield fly.

A coed game earlier this year also had a woman hit a line drive that the outfielder short hopped on the ground on a dead sprint towards the infield while the runners on first and second advanced on the play. The umpire called it an infield fly and a triple play since he said the runners could not advance without tagging even though the ball was not caught in the air (he actually changed his mind after we complained loudly enough).

The 'ordinary effort' part of the infield fly is the tough part of this call.

Your quote is correct but my point is that just because an outfielder ends up being the one that makes the play on the batted ball does not have any bearing on IFF. An umpire can still call IFF on a short pop up and have the OF call off the IF and make the play and its still an IFF

There are a couple of major mistakes made in your coed game situation. Obviously the umpire shouldn't have called IFF on a line drive to the outfield. The 2nd problem is that even if IFF is called if the ball is not caught the runner do not have to tag up. If tthat were the case the runners could tag up as soon as the umpire called IFF and could already be to the next base before the ball came down.
 

ARay1122

The Rookie
To clarify what I said earlier. The ball was nowhere near the IF and the 1B & 2B did not make a move towards the fly. It just hit the right spot because the RF was playing way too far back and could not catch up to the ball. Even if he did not fall he probably would not have got to the ball. It's just a bad rule that umpires do not take the time to learn the rule. In my 3 years of umpiring I made a couple of calls I was not sure about due to bad angles. So I huddled with the other umpire and fixed the call both times. I understand human error in umpiring,but both umpires were in agreement that the plate umpire made a bad call. The field umpire told me that once a call is made it can not be changed because it was a judgement call. Thank God we ended up winning,but I was just looking for clarification in the future.
 

ARay1122

The Rookie
To clarify what I said earlier. The ball was nowhere near the IF and the 1B & 2B did not make a move towards the fly. It just hit the right spot because the RF was playing way too far back and could not catch up to the ball. Even if he did not fall he probably would not have got to the ball. It's just a bad rule that umpires do not take the time to learn the rule. In my 3 years of umpiring I made a couple of calls I was not sure about due to bad angles. So I huddled with the other umpire and fixed the call both times. I understand human error in umpiring,but both umpires were in agreement that the plate umpire made a bad call. The field umpire told me that once a call is made it can not be changed because it was a judgement call. Thank God we ended up winning,but I was just looking for clarification in the future.
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
In real life softball games, the Infield FLY rule is designed for any pop up
in the dirt or extremely near infield, hence the name.

This is wrong. It has nothing to do where the ball is or lands. Don't know how many times that has been explained.

IF the ball was most likely to have a play on it by OF,
then it's not an IF Fly Out.

That is closer, but not a guarantee

If the UMP jumped the gun and the ball landed in RF,
as NC would say, "Protest"...;)

And it will be rejected. This is a judgment call. As BretMan noted, it could be corrected, but only by the umpire who make the call and someone isn't going to like one part of the ultimate call.

As for the subject line, if you believe a call cost you the game, you were playing over your head. If any call has a bearing on the outcome of any sporting event, you didn't play good enough to win.

Don't like sports officials and the job they do, take them out of the equation and play beyond their limits which is how you should be playing all the time, anyway.
 
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