smarkley3
Certified Trap Hoe
Hey Ru making fun of my Cyro One bat????
Is softball changing and falling because.....
- Thread starter AWall13
- Start date
Hey Ru making fun of my Cyro One bat????
killinmesmallz6
Smashin Gold Tops
When it comes to calling it a hobby and then rip on people that spend money on hobby you've already crossed yourself. I have other "hobbies" besides softball: camping, hunting, fishing and other similar outdoor activities. I spend quite abut of money on these recreational hobbies and I like to have quality products to use when I'm doing these. I don't see an issues with somebody wanting to spend money they make on something they like to participate. You also point out sandbagging, yes this is a problem. When people try to avoid being classified and playing up where they belong that's a problem. But then you rip on someone for playing up and having a.400 win percentage.
So you don't like sandbaggers (which makes sense) in a recreational sport but you still rip on people who go and play up where they're not considered to be sandbagging and don't have a perfect win percentage because of more competitive opponents. That doesn't make sense.
The reasons if any that softball is "changing" not failing is cheats. There always was and will be someone trying to break or bend the rules. This then encourages new rules to be made.
Just like in any hobby they're are different levels, levels of play in softball are there to place people were they're talent dictates. If you are of lesser talent or don't care if someone doesn't run the base paths then you're in the E/D rec category. I've played church, E, D, C and open leagues. And at every level the cheats and the dbags spoil the game. Just because someone buys more equipment or buys very little equipment doesn't change the fact that it's the douche or the cheat ruins the game. If someone's a ****ty person or has a ****ty attitude then that is then reflected in there play.
Bottom line this game was invented to compete against one another not recreation against one another and the game has and will continue to change after us.
stork
Rocky Mountain Oyster aka DirtDog
Interesting article today on Carlos Gomez. Good read and kind of related. Last paragraph sums it up.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on...-gomez-is-a-problem-but-so-is-oversensitivity
Gomez is one of the most exciting all-around players in the game. He's an unbelievable defensive player and he has a great power-speed combo on the offensive end. His intensity helps to a certain extent, sure, but the attitude could use an adjustment. Getting kicked out of games hurts his team, a suspension -- which is probably coming -- hurts his team and when he freaks out after a strikeout he could injure himself. So, again, Gomez needs to dial it down in a few areas. I don't think many would dispute that. I have no doubt that the fight Sunday would have been avoided if Gomez would just settle down a little bit.
He's not alone, though.
I continue to be baffled by this mindset where it's OK for baseball players to pout over how an opponent reacts. It happens all the time, so I'm not singling out Gerrit Cole, as he's simply the latest example. In this specific case, why does he care how Gomez reacts in the batter's box? And couldn't it be argued that Gomez cost himself a chance at an inside-the-park homer by standing there admiring his shot? If someone argues that Gomez looked like a fool, shouldn't Cole just let him look like a fool?
Around this point in the discussion, I'm bound to be met with rhetoric from the supposed "tough guy" crowd resembling the following:
1. Gomez needs to respect the game! He doesn't play the game right way!
2. Gomez showed Cole up!
3. Gomez is a punk!
4. Back in the old days, Bob Gibson would have [insert made-up hypothetical]
My responses:
1. Maybe, but why should that upset opposing players enough to go over and yell at him? If an opponent disrespects the game of baseball, how does it actually affect you? It doesn't. Ignore him. Also, I'm sorry but there's no actual "right way" to play, speaking from a factual point of view. The "right way" rhetoric is all a matter of opinion. I'm a big "to each his own" guy. If Gomez really wants to watch a fly ball and possibly cost himself an extra base, that's up to him.
2. Here's what I don't understand about all these so-called macho men who pound their chests over things like "the right way." If you're so tough, why do the actions of an opponent cause a hissy fit? Wouldn't the actual tough guys be mentally tough enough to either ignore the opponent or just wryly laugh at him? I guess I'm weird, but I think the stronger people are the ones who are able to ignore the noise without getting upset.
3. Irrelevant nonsense that doesn't broach the issue at hand.
4. Again, I don't understand how getting upset about how an opponent acts and throwing a baseball at him from 60 feet away makes someone tough. Maybe strike him out instead? Wouldn't that be more manly? It's "I beat you" instead of "I'm mad at you, so I'm going to throw something at you." You know who throws things in anger? Young children when throwing a temper tantrum.
As I've written before, baseball is supposed to be fun. If I'm a baseball player and an opposing player like Gomez (or everyone's favorite punching bag Yasiel Puig) likes to have fun in a manner different than other players, I don't really care. Maybe he looks dumb to some people, but that's his choice. If I'm a pitcher and have a problem with how an opponent pimps a long fly ball, I need to get him out and then we won't have to see it. If I fail to get him out, maybe I should be upset with myself for not getting an out a.k.a. doing my job.
Seriously, for all the talk about being so tough, a lot of people are pretty damn mentally weak. Gomez is a slight attitude problem and needs to stop letting it hurt his team, but the oversensitivity of the masses needs to stop as well. Quit whining and play ball.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on...-gomez-is-a-problem-but-so-is-oversensitivity
Gomez is one of the most exciting all-around players in the game. He's an unbelievable defensive player and he has a great power-speed combo on the offensive end. His intensity helps to a certain extent, sure, but the attitude could use an adjustment. Getting kicked out of games hurts his team, a suspension -- which is probably coming -- hurts his team and when he freaks out after a strikeout he could injure himself. So, again, Gomez needs to dial it down in a few areas. I don't think many would dispute that. I have no doubt that the fight Sunday would have been avoided if Gomez would just settle down a little bit.
He's not alone, though.
I continue to be baffled by this mindset where it's OK for baseball players to pout over how an opponent reacts. It happens all the time, so I'm not singling out Gerrit Cole, as he's simply the latest example. In this specific case, why does he care how Gomez reacts in the batter's box? And couldn't it be argued that Gomez cost himself a chance at an inside-the-park homer by standing there admiring his shot? If someone argues that Gomez looked like a fool, shouldn't Cole just let him look like a fool?
Around this point in the discussion, I'm bound to be met with rhetoric from the supposed "tough guy" crowd resembling the following:
1. Gomez needs to respect the game! He doesn't play the game right way!
2. Gomez showed Cole up!
3. Gomez is a punk!
4. Back in the old days, Bob Gibson would have [insert made-up hypothetical]
My responses:
1. Maybe, but why should that upset opposing players enough to go over and yell at him? If an opponent disrespects the game of baseball, how does it actually affect you? It doesn't. Ignore him. Also, I'm sorry but there's no actual "right way" to play, speaking from a factual point of view. The "right way" rhetoric is all a matter of opinion. I'm a big "to each his own" guy. If Gomez really wants to watch a fly ball and possibly cost himself an extra base, that's up to him.
2. Here's what I don't understand about all these so-called macho men who pound their chests over things like "the right way." If you're so tough, why do the actions of an opponent cause a hissy fit? Wouldn't the actual tough guys be mentally tough enough to either ignore the opponent or just wryly laugh at him? I guess I'm weird, but I think the stronger people are the ones who are able to ignore the noise without getting upset.
3. Irrelevant nonsense that doesn't broach the issue at hand.
4. Again, I don't understand how getting upset about how an opponent acts and throwing a baseball at him from 60 feet away makes someone tough. Maybe strike him out instead? Wouldn't that be more manly? It's "I beat you" instead of "I'm mad at you, so I'm going to throw something at you." You know who throws things in anger? Young children when throwing a temper tantrum.
As I've written before, baseball is supposed to be fun. If I'm a baseball player and an opposing player like Gomez (or everyone's favorite punching bag Yasiel Puig) likes to have fun in a manner different than other players, I don't really care. Maybe he looks dumb to some people, but that's his choice. If I'm a pitcher and have a problem with how an opponent pimps a long fly ball, I need to get him out and then we won't have to see it. If I fail to get him out, maybe I should be upset with myself for not getting an out a.k.a. doing my job.
Seriously, for all the talk about being so tough, a lot of people are pretty damn mentally weak. Gomez is a slight attitude problem and needs to stop letting it hurt his team, but the oversensitivity of the masses needs to stop as well. Quit whining and play ball.
Treb
Retired
i'm one of those rec guys that gave it up.
Amen.
You'd still be playing if you lived around here.
Seriously, stop restricting the homeruns so much, but restrict the prize packages. A tournament here with enough teams will have 12 bats for the winners of each division that gets enough teams. What does that say? Play down and increase your chances of winning a team's worth of freaking bats.
A team's worth of bats should be for C and up only. 6 for D and 2 for E, or something like that. Then you can ease up on the IEO etc. IMO. People won't move up to hit an extra homerun, but they might to win better stuff.
Back in the day, it was about pride. If pride's not enough to get people to move up then bribe them with something more tangible than a homerun. Also, we're going to play, it's about getting new people. Throw the best tournaments, do it right, offer the best product available, and people will play it and move up for the prizes.
2TransAms
Droppin' 280 ft bombs
You'll always have sandbaggers playing down, and you'll always have the rec teams who aren't ready for it. The issue is keeping them apart. The biggest problem I see is LD's who only care about getting the league fees and let tourney teams come and stomp all over the rec teams. Then the guys on the rec team just give it up after a year or two because let's be honest, it's no fun getting stomped every week. When half your team doesn't even have matching shirts or even cleats, it's discouraging right out the gate when the other team shows up in full tourney battle rattle. I've said it before, there's nowhere left for the guys who just want to get out of the house one night a week and play. And yeah, you could say if they are that bad then maybe they shouldn't even play, but it's also not such a bad thing to just have a relaxed non-competitive league. I bet you'd have more teams signing up if you could do that. From a business standpoint, who cares if they suck as long as you're selling beer to them.
Rocketfire24
Addicted to Softballfans
Softball hero attitude is crazy in the game now. You can see it on this site, it's not that cool to be a good D or C Tourney player...it just isnt. And if you are B or higher, I would say you might be one of the best few thousand players in the US, but again....not a lot of humility out there. Not saying every Major or A player is a jerk, but some of those guys in between can be.
I agree completely about "softball hero attitude". It's insane and it runs many guys aware from tournament ball. To be honest, many, many guys I played with/against in college can play at the B level and potentially above if they put in the work. I played at that level last year and it was fun, but the attitudes and ego's are ridiculous. It's very hard to come from the baseball atmosphere to slow pitch…just leagues for me for now.
Rocketfire24
Addicted to Softballfans
Exactly, its crazy how awesome some guys think they are at softball. You are right about all of the small college or even Division one baseball players that don't move on to the minor leagues. Just about all of them if they put in a little work to figure out softball they would be super solid players. Maybe they would not act like they are some kind of special masher....or the culture would change them and they would shave some bats and freak out about a pitch getting hit past the pitcher.
Really, just wish guys would realize that is just some fun competition really and had a little sportsmenship. Seems like softball guy lives and dies for playing ball.
chrometip78
The Hungarian Barbarian
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mattun
Internet Tough Guy
Is it just me or are the homers being out of whack not as insane as everybody makes it out? Like back in ancient times (pre-composite), we were hitting better balls so it kinda evened out. The only difference I've noticed is little guys with good bat speed finally started hitting them out when the composites showed up. But I don't think that ruined the game. If anything, shouldn't that have enhanced the game so it wasn't just the big dudes hitting home runs?
What has changed is there's fewer people playing so if like a company team starts up and joins an established league, they are going to get absolutely destroyed because the "lower level" league probably like five veteran teams with a couple dozen tourney players and/or they're just overmatched technology-wise if they show up with a bunch of Hammers. Then they don't come back.
What has changed is there's fewer people playing so if like a company team starts up and joins an established league, they are going to get absolutely destroyed because the "lower level" league probably like five veteran teams with a couple dozen tourney players and/or they're just overmatched technology-wise if they show up with a bunch of Hammers. Then they don't come back.
Rocketfire24
Addicted to Softballfans
I think you are correct, I don't think its that sucky players can hit homeruns. Now the Ultras and 100 mph bats with the old balls, yeah...it was a little crazy. But the guys hitting balls out regularly today would of bombed balls in 1995 with metal and a .50 cor. I don't know what is wrong, but I think real rec leagues played at good fields is hard to find...maybe there is some issues with sandbagging.
AWall13
Addicted to Softballfans
I get what you're saying from my OP and some of the other posts. Most the time when I'm on SBF i'm at work and constantly looking over my shoulder so alot of my thoughts aren't completely thorough so later have to do some extra explaining:
I see people spending money on their hobbies. I myself am a gun enthusiast and have more than necessary so do spend money on hobbies as you said in camping, hunting, fishing, etc. But how many bows do you have? Probably just the one you use, maybe one for a kid if you have them or maybe you kept your old one when you upgraded. I'm referring to the guys that have 8 bats totalling $3,000 in their bag. You don't need that for a hobby. 1 utrip 1 ASA is all you need.
We both agree sandbagging is an issue
I wasn't discouraging teams to play up when talking low winning percentages. I was referring to a specific group of local guys and theyre probably at every park. The wanna be softball heroes who show up to Thursday night league in their full E tournament team uniform "for show". Then they spend the whole night talking about where theyre playing on saturday. Then have a 2-9 night because theyre trying to go backside and cant do it for **** and say theyre working on their Saturday swing. Say they dont care cuz its "only league ball, not tournament". Then go two and out like every other weekend. Those guys piss me off
The old guys would still bomb today, but look at that Warpath video. Terrible mechanics, terrible swing path, hits the bat off the sweetspot, and it's still possibly a homerun because of a thinned out composite. When it was ball on sweetspot back in the day the performance was very similar to today's bat and ball at about 80 degrees, but all the other factors are in today's composite queens favor. Without taking into account the shaving, the sweetspot is huge and a ball hit 8" from the endcap can easily go 300+ instead of 175 like it would in 1995.
Then you add in the shaving aspect. I'd guess that people that use altered bats are 50% garbage, 50% actually skilled players. Now the garbage players (see the video above) talk trash and think they're good and stomp all over rec players because their D is still suspect, but the good players are also just that much harder to get out. Just that much more dangerous to infielders.
People focus too much on the homerun. Who cares? If you use them perfectly you can get 6 runs over your opponent in a 2 hr league if you hit two grandlams and they hit two solos. The problem is all the ground balls in the gaps and the fact that 90% of infield balls have a chance to eat up the Ifer, and that's only on the ones they can even get to. The pace of the ball and the ease with which you can put it where you want it are just too high IMO.
I think the new ball takes care of most of that though, and if they can eliminate big prizes for lower levels in tournaments I think that'd be a great first step for this.
I thought you were talking about the guys that accidentally hit a homerun that one time, so they think they can play D and get their eyes beat in.
AWall13
Addicted to Softballfans
And other guy thought I was bagging on borderline D/E teams playing D and open and losing as opposed to playing E and run ruling teams. That was far from what I meant. Poorly worded. Last post was more clear.
AWall13
Addicted to Softballfans
From what ive pieced together there's a number of qualifiers where winners get automatic bids to worlds. Then for rest of sanctioned tournaments you get points for placing and a certain number of points also gets you an automatic bid so playing every weekend and playing well can get you in just as winning qualifiers. THen if you are registered E and play up and place in a D tournament you get double points towards your bid so legitimate D/C teams are registering E even if they never play an E tournament so every time they play they get extra points towards a worlds bid.
I could be completely off base but thats what Ive managed to put together
It should be pretty easy for a state director to see that and auto bump those teams, but my guess is they don't.
I've got a feeling if we looked at the E worlds bracket and looked at those team's stats for the season we'd all be pretty disgusted. Is that why UTrip locks that stuff except to state directors in August? Hmmmmm.
I don't play UTrip at all if I can avoid it BTW.
I've got a feeling if we looked at the E worlds bracket and looked at those team's stats for the season we'd all be pretty disgusted. Is that why UTrip locks that stuff except to state directors in August? Hmmmmm.
I don't play UTrip at all if I can avoid it BTW.
AWall13
Addicted to Softballfans
It should be pretty easy for a state director to see that and auto bump those teams, but my guess is they don't.
I've got a feeling if we looked at the E worlds bracket and looked at those team's stats for the season we'd all be pretty disgusted. Is that why UTrip locks that stuff except to state directors in August? Hmmmmm.
I don't play UTrip at all if I can avoid it BTW.
I prefer ASA but local ASA leagues have died so hard to link up with any ASA tournament teams. Utrip and NSA is pretty much where the most ball and where the competitive ball is offered here.
What they've done in michigan is try to limit number of "watchlist" players per team based on what level.
And every tournament you can submit a roster of up to 20 players. If you win a tournament your roster locks. So if you happen to be missing 3 players one weekend and find subs and win and forget to put the guys youre missing on your submitted roster youre **** out of luck. Forget if those guys you used as subs are on other teams that havent locked yet then its a huge cluster ****. Guess it keeps guys from bouncing around teams weekend to weekend in season
SirKuz
OG Softball Addict
I agree with this guy 100%. I have tried to get this point through to many people on my team over and over again. It's a main part of what has ruined the games. There are too many pumped up angry men playing and its all about them. Too much emotion from teams is directed towards the other team. Keep it in house and have fun. I hate hearing my guys say something back to the other team. I will sit down by them and tell them I'd much rather you let your bat and glove do the talking since that is what we are here for. If you want to brawl I know where they do cage fighting....
What ever happened to speak softly and carry a big stick?
chrometip78
The Hungarian Barbarian
It is, slightly disappointed it didn't get more feedback, guess he's lost his touch.