Minnesota Thread

Yoke

Too sweeeeeeeet
Seems like the Frolics people were actively working against letting as many teams in as possible.

It will be interesting to see where the tourneys sit in 5 years or 10 years. There just aren’t enough new teams coming in, and more and more the ones that have been around for a while are going away.
 

wildthing81

Active Member
League will still be there but even that is significantly down. 15 years ago I played in 3 leagues, they had 40-16-13 teams, this year those leagues have 17-6-6. League will hang on just because people like to get out to have a beer and relax for 1 night a week but thats it.

Tournaments are essentially dead now. The big teams load up to play Corkys/Firemans/Dudley/Nats but thats about it. A lot of reasons for that, amateur ball is popular right now that takes the younger group out from playing and guys kids have 10,000 things going on now and its traveling everywhere. Gone are the days you took the kids 10miles to the local town for a game or 2 a week. Now you have traveling teams that go to MN/IA/WI etc so instead of going to the local town tourney guys are going to Omaha to watch their kid play.

And as someone who has ran a tournament, you are pretty helpless as how to make it bigger. Some people say "just toss more money at it" that doesnt work because that draws in 1-2 "upper" teams and then the rest of the teams hear that and say nope we cant win we are out. It really is too bad too, man there were so many fun random small town carney tournies where you could show up and there werent big name teams but there was some good softball. Now its dried up.

I think there are a number of things working against league ball. 1st in the cost, the cost for league has gone up up up, its pretty crazy to see. I've played league all over the Twin Cities since the early 2000's at no point do i want to shell out a grand or more to play league when umpires dont even take it seriously and wont move from behind the plate. I played league in BC in the early to mid 2000's, that league was loaded and honestly the games were tougher in league then they were for a normal qualifier, teams would show up to league in full uniforms. 2nd Time...alot of people dont have the time to play league and the traffic around the twin cities in the past 20 years has gone from congested to a complete clusterf$%^, to get from one side of the city to the other to play a 6pm game was near impossible unless i was leaving work at 4pm. So maybe half the games on a league schedule could be a problem. Also the late night games go so late that often i wasnt in bed until after mid night, making it a short night and long next day. 3rd is just plain desire. For me personally I can get more work in practicing in my back yard in one hour then i could spending a full night at league away from my family. Obviously this is just my case, but I can tell you i didnt really start to get better as a player until i hit for hours at the park by myself, getting 8 abs a night at league and crushing beers wasnt doing it for me. Lastly, we dont have a young hungry crop of players coming behind this generation of softball players, gone are the 18-22 year olds playing softball. When i first started playing ball, it was co-ed to meet women and for Crystal VFW. We were all with in the range of 18-23. We basically all played because we grew up watching our dads play and most of us our baseball dreams died...We were one of many many teams that had early 20 somethings on it, gone are those days really. We got our heads beat in weekly and we kept at it until we were doing to beating, gone is that mentality as well. Just my 02.
 

wildthing81

Active Member
Seems like the Frolics people were actively working against letting as many teams in as possible.

It will be interesting to see where the tourneys sit in 5 years or 10 years. There just aren’t enough new teams coming in, and more and more the ones that have been around for a while are going away.

The frolics killed upper ball for that tourney and actively turned away upper teams...One year my team Eurotech was told we were not going to be allowed to play in the Frolics, seriously one of the better B utrip teams in the state not allowed to play in the frolics, we had to drive down to Houston and play in Hoe' down daze instead of playing in our backyard. Another year i was playing in the conference, my team was off for the weekend, i was asked to play in it by another team. I called the tourny director and asked if i could play since Andy Vitzak and Geno Buck had been allowed to play in it previously while on a conference team, I was told no. Fine can i at least hit in the home run derby? No...The Frolics has always stated they make up their own rules and dont necessarily follow Utrip rules which at times has caused issues. Then of course the city of Crystal completely botched the Becker park deal and destroyed a completely good park for no reason thinking they could build the light rail station on the park grounds only to find out the deed to land states for park use only...cant make it up....frolics is dead as is utrip in minnesota.
 

Beauner

Starting Player
Apple Valley league on Wednesday nights has 3-4 teams of guys that are in their early 20s. Most young teams I've seen in quite a while around here.

I know league fees are higher now than they used to be, but I think Apple Valley and Burnsville are about $800-850 for 24 games in summer. I think when I first started it was $750? About a decade ago.
 

Worth4252

Member
The frolics killed upper ball for that tourney and actively turned away upper teams...One year my team Eurotech was told we were not going to be allowed to play in the Frolics, seriously one of the better B utrip teams in the state not allowed to play in the frolics, we had to drive down to Houston and play in Hoe' down daze instead of playing in our backyard. Another year i was playing in the conference, my team was off for the weekend, i was asked to play in it by another team. I called the tourny director and asked if i could play since Andy Vitzak and Geno Buck had been allowed to play in it previously while on a conference team, I was told no. Fine can i at least hit in the home run derby? No...The Frolics has always stated they make up their own rules and dont necessarily follow Utrip rules which at times has caused issues. Then of course the city of Crystal completely botched the Becker park deal and destroyed a completely good park for no reason thinking they could build the light rail station on the park grounds only to find out the deed to land states for park use only...cant make it up....frolics is dead as is utrip in minnesota.
30 teams in Pan-O-Prog is huge, and that’s sad.
 

NDSoftballJesus

The Rookie
Wouldn't say Fireman's is dead. Tier one had 14 teams last year... This year 13. Don't be so negative on softball numbers. They come and go, times change. If you look at some areas of the country they are growing and others are shrinking. When a tournament is well ran at a nice complex teams flock to it. I think a BIG reason why you see a large decline in tournaments #'s is because that particular tournament is not well ran and the complex is not as nice. The days of teams playing 16 tournaments a summer are over. People still want to play but 1-2 maybe 3 tournaments a month max. So teams put the tournaments on their schedule in the winter that they know will be full and fun come the next year. Complex is nice and competition is good. i.e. Corkys, Firemans, Dudley, McQuade, Mausten, Iowa etc. Teams also do not want to travel due to the expense and lack of sponsorship money available to many teams.

Sure we don't have as many teams as before but I wouldn't say the sport is dying... personally.
 

leib0039

New Member
Firemans sounds like it's dead. Teams are pulling out. I think Tier 2 is down to 10 teams.
Anyone confirm this? I mean I would prefer not to lose teams....but if it was a way to move our 8am game I guess there are worse things ha

And if its 10 teams i REALLY hope they scrap sunday, not real fun to come back at 8am to play 1-2 games.
 

thelastsamurai

Addicted to Softballfans
I think it’s a combo of a lot of things people wrote above for the decline. Firemans is in my backyard or was when they used Dred Scott:(. They have a great new concession stand 10 private bathrooms haha but never use it. New led lights but fields and fences are still very poor. I think usssa has started to make a comeback with tourneys with better payouts like Duk Duk this weekend. A lot of asa c teams are switching to usssa d as well, but ten teams in tier 2 is a little sad.
 

Chembry

Addicted to Softballfans
Duk Duk (now Pub 42 Classic) has:
17 teams in the upper. Good mix of USSSA and ASA/USA teams. GGM, Stoop, JEC, Redline/Stagecoach, Blueline, etc...
14 teams in lower, according to the last update posted ~5 days ago.

Last time I played Duk Duk was 2020. That year there were 28 teams in the upper and 28 in the lower. However, that was the summer everything was cancelled due to COVID and Duk Duk was the only tournament that weekend, so the numbers may be a bit inflated.
 

mnballer

Addicted to Softballfans
I think would get teams back into tier 2 is put everything on dred Scott. 1 Day tourney till you get enough to do dred on sat and bring the winners to the main complex Sunday..

No one likes to play on the open flds
 

wildthing81

Active Member
At this point couldn't they play the whole thing a Dred? And for it to continue in the future is there anyone that's Barnsey's #2 preparing to take over.
You would think the whole thing (tier 2) could be played at Dred and probably should be played at Dred. Isnt the city of bloomington still fighting to plow over the valley view fieds and put a community center at that complex? I had followed that development for a while and it looked like the people who lived in the city fought back and down voted that but i thought I read the idea was brought back and back on the table? Hard to see a firemens tourny if its not held at valleyview
 

Yoke

Too sweeeeeeeet
How was Firemens?

Duk Duk was pretty solid. The two fields we played at were decent. I’m not sure why the fences at Begin and Lighted are so short. Seems like they’d be a little safer if they were higher, especially with CF at Lighted being so close.

The three umps we had (including Kenny) had decent enough zones. Pretty easy guys to talk to, too.
 

leib0039

New Member
How was Firemens?

Duk Duk was pretty solid. The two fields we played at were decent. I’m not sure why the fences at Begin and Lighted are so short. Seems like they’d be a little safer if they were higher, especially with CF at Lighted being so close.

The three umps we had (including Kenny) had decent enough zones. Pretty easy guys to talk to, too.
Firemans was fine. Overall I would say people are down, talent is down, and atmosphere was fine. I asked the ump we had at 8am how many games he had, he didnt know because they were still short umps. Later in Tier 2 we had a guy who said he had played a lot but never umped before, he did fine but you could tell he hadn't umped or played recently.

I know they want everyone right there and its always been there but man just moving Tier 2 to Dred would just make a world of difference and I would think would pull in a few more teams.
 

Yoke

Too sweeeeeeeet
I think I’d sign us up for tier 2 if we got to play at Dred Scott. Even the 3.5 foot tall fences we had at Duk Duk are better than an open field.

With open fields, we’d definitely stay at Duk Duk. Not that I’d want to try to defend our consolation championship, but maybe we stay on the proper bracket for longer.
 

Yoke

Too sweeeeeeeet
USSSA still gets away with 2.5 strikes and 7 feet is too high. Makes no sense. Bunch of old umps still calling the Dudley strike.
I’m super glad that we didn’t get anyone with that zone, especially when I was pitching. I got the full 10 feet, and maybe a little extra. Pitching isn’t my strong suit, so I need the help.

I’ve definitely seen it, though. 5 foot fastballs that the catcher and ump have to try to dodge.
 

wildthing81

Active Member
USSSA still gets away with 2.5 strikes and 7 feet is too high. Makes no sense. Bunch of old umps still calling the Dudley strike.
The utrip strike zone is a joke locally...im sorry if the ball is 8 feet high it does not need to hit a penny sized spot behind the plate to be a strike...mean while a 3 foot pitch can zing in there and basically hit the ump in the foot and be a strike...call the zone like it is, 3 to 10. I've pitched more ASA in the past 5 years because there isnt much for upper utrip around so i tend to throw a pitch now with more arc, every time i pitch utrip locally im getting squeezed at anything above 7 feet...its laughable...
 

Worth4252

Member
The utrip strike zone is a joke locally...im sorry if the ball is 8 feet high it does not need to hit a penny sized spot behind the plate to be a strike...mean while a 3 foot pitch can zing in there and basically hit the ump in the foot and be a strike...call the zone like it is, 3 to 10. I've pitched more ASA in the past 5 years because there isnt much for upper utrip around so i tend to throw a pitch now with more arc, every time i pitch utrip locally im getting squeezed at anything above 7 feet...its laughable...
Our former UTRIP UIC is the worst of it. Likes to make the game about himself. 3 ft from release, not from the ground. They don’t get it.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Our former UTRIP UIC is the worst of it. Likes to make the game about himself. 3 ft from release, not from the ground. They don’t get it.
I think it also matters where in the cities you are. In the north where it's mostly guys he trained or watched coming up you see that more than you do the guys in the south metro that learned from Dallenbach and Strand Jr. The top end of MN umpires you could put up against any state nationally and be pretty favorable, maybe Arkansas would be better but it'd be close. But when you have your best guys travelling doing Conference you're missing those guys at events like Frolics.
 

Worth4252

Member
I think it also matters where in the cities you are. In the north where it's mostly guys he trained or watched coming up you see that more than you do the guys in the south metro that learned from Dallenbach and Strand Jr. The top end of MN umpires you could put up against any state nationally and be pretty favorable, maybe Arkansas would be better but it'd be close. But when you have your best guys travelling doing Conference you're missing those guys at events like Frolics
That’s true. We do have some very good umpires. Flugs is just horrendous.
 
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