Modified Pitching Noob Looking for Tips

petebanta

Addicted to Softballfans
So, I joined a co-ed team in a U-Trip modified league recently (I play 2x week in another ASA Slow-Pitch league, where I pitch full-time). They are pretty bad (Last in league - Work team that is more concerned with people playing than winning, but that's OK. Been there...). I did not even realize it was modified pitch rules first couple weeks, as all I saw were people pitching low to mid-height meatballs, but then ump actualy explained it before the game last week. In fact, before that, I did not even know what modified was.

So, sue me. :eek:

Not sure why I see nobody trying this vs. lob... ? Maybe it has to do with league starting counts at 1-1, and so less room for error with harder pitches? Or maybe nobody can do it well, or even thought of doing it? But I think if you could do it well, it could make a pretty big difference for a bad team, by not allowing placement of hits so much (and producing more grounders), and adding some K's in the mix (pretty rare now, and only from taking pitches). I threw a few for fun before our game yesterday to a girl from our team that is a decent hitter, and fanned her 3x. She asked out loud why I was not pitching (the main reason for that being it is the regular spot for a girl there before I arrived, but whom would be better suited playing at 2nd, in my opinion).

OK - A little brag. :cool:

Any way, I am now interested in taking a crack at pitching for them, and trying to heat some in there vs the meatball approach (been playing other positions for them so far, as they needed help in field more than pitching). Threw some in the backyard with my son the other day (he's 15, Me 42), and did pretty well at generating some good speed (guess 40-50MPH-ish on best), while still having decent control (height was the issue, more than in-out, as you would suspect). Think this could mess with batters only used to easy-to-hit lobs, and especially mess with the large majority of the girls.

So, I Googled around, but find very little in the way of info/instruction on good modified technique for speed (couple decent vids of a Canadian guy pitching with an unusual wind-up to help generate speed, but not much else). So, I figure this might be a good place to ask for any tips or practice ideas for learning to generate better speed and good release points (and tips for more advanced techniques, like curves and knuckles, if possible).

Any ideas, drills, tips, links (especially video) would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks!
 

nyhack56

Addicted to Softballfans
Honestly, before you get any tips, the first thing I would do is find out what the league deems as a legal delivery. Can you not bend the elbow? Can you not bend the wrist? Do your hips needs to be square to the plate on delivery? Stuff like that.
 

petebanta

Addicted to Softballfans
Honestly, before you get any tips, the first thing I would do is find out what the league deems as a legal delivery. Can you not bend the elbow? Can you not bend the wrist? Do your hips needs to be square to the plate on delivery? Stuff like that.

As far as I know, the rule is no further than shoulder high on take bake (no windmill). That is only restriction I know of. The delivery I am using is a quicker/shorter & pretty low take-back, and then pretty-much straight-through and low on release next to my hip. Get extra power with hard step to plate (short step-back first on low wind-up). Hand release is not above shoulder, either, as I find reaching towards target gets better/lower/faster delivery. Hips are pretty much square to plate on release (no twisting).

Sound GTG for USSSA (rules they use, I believe)?

I do know the head ump, and will ask him for all parameters before I waste time practicing an illegal technique. Thanks.
 

petebanta

Addicted to Softballfans
I thought only ASA and ISA sanction Modified. I wasn't aware that Utrip now does also.

Yeah, I think these guys may not be playing all rules. The 1B/S rule was instituted during the seasonk, to speed up games (definitely changes the batting/pitching strategy vs my other normal start with 0-0 count league). They also seem to not really have bat rules, other than USSSA-approved.

OS, I wouldn't be surprised if modified was an addition at some point...

But it is modified. There are no height or speed rules. Just on delivery being underhand and not windmill. I will check on more restrictions...
 

petebanta

Addicted to Softballfans
http://www.usssa.com/usssa/usssa-general/2005ModifiedPlayingRules.htm

RULE 6 - PITCHING

Sec. 1 Before starting the delivery (pitch) the pitcher shall comply with the following:

a. He shall take a position with both feet on the pitcher's plate. The hands shall be separated. The ball can be in the glove or pitching hand. His shoulders shall be in line with first and third bases.

b. While in this position the pitcher shall take the signal from the catcher.

c. The pitcher shall then hold the ball in both hands for not less than one second and not more than five seconds before releasing the ball.

d. The pitcher shall not be considered in the pitching position unless the catcher in is position to receive the pitch.

e. The pitcher may not take the pitching position on or near the pitcher's plate without having the ball in his possession.

f. The pitcher shall not wear a sweatband, bracelet, or similar-type items on the hand, wrist, or arm.


Sec. 2 The pitch starts when one hand is taken off the ball or the pitcher makes any motion that is part of his wind-up.

a. In the act of delivering the ball, the pitcher shall not take more than one step which must be toward the batter and simultaneous with the delivery of the ball to the batter.

b. Pushing off the pitching plate with the pivot foot shall be allowed provided contact is maintained with the ground.


NOTE: It is not a step, if the pitcher slides his/her foot across the pitching plate, provided contact is maintained with the pitching plate.


c. Pitchers shall not use a windmill, side-arm or sling-shot motion. The pitchers' elbow must remain locked until release of the pitch.


Sec. 3 A legal delivery shall be a ball which is delivered to the batter with an underhand motion.

a. In the act of delivering the ball...

(1) the pitchers first step must be forward.

(2) the release of the ball must be on the first forward swing of the pitching arm past the hip and the release must have a complete and smooth follow through with no abrupt stop of the arm near the hip.

(3) The ball must not be outside the pitcher's wrist at the top of the backswing and during the complete forward delivery.

(4) On the forward swing of the pitching arm the elbow must be locked at the point of release and the driving hip must be squared with home plate when the ball is released.

(5) He/she may take the ball behind the back on the backswing.

(6) The pitcher's palm may be pointing downward upon delivery.


b. When an illegal pitch is called by the umpire, an immediate dead ball shall be called, a ball awarded to the batter and all the baserunners will be advanced one base. Crow hopping and leaping shall be considered illegal pitches.

===

I think I am doing all of these things. Although I do take a short step back first, but I have seen a lot of the league pitchers doing this on their slower deliveries, I think...
 

diet pepsi

Addicted to Softballfans
So, the delivery is what we called a "slingshot?"

I teach fastpitch, but I am in Tucson. There would be all kinds of pitches you can throw, change up, drop ball etc. Let me know if I can help.
 

gofisch

Active Member
The rules you mentioned are the style of pitching that a lot of the board members call "10 man rules" a more generic term is "bowling style." This is the style I pitch, you will never be able to pitch as fast as the "slingshot" style of pitchers, but you can throw curves, sliders and knuckles etc with a lot of practice. I always tell guys to find a wall and get an Easton Incrediball and practice. Draw a strike zone on the wall and practice pitching to the corners. The moving in and out and up and down are going to serve you better in the long run than being able to throw speed all the time.
 

petebanta

Addicted to Softballfans
The rules you mentioned are the style of pitching that a lot of the board members call "10 man rules" a more generic term is "bowling style." This is the style I pitch, you will never be able to pitch as fast as the "slingshot" style of pitchers, but you can throw curves, sliders and knuckles etc with a lot of practice. I always tell guys to find a wall and get an Easton Incrediball and practice. Draw a strike zone on the wall and practice pitching to the corners. The moving in and out and up and down are going to serve you better in the long run than being able to throw speed all the time.

Thanks! Couple questions...

* What are differences between bowling style and slingshot delivery exactly? Is slingshot more side-arm-y (but with under-waist delivery)? So, elbow is allowed to bend during motion?

* Is any elbow bending allowed in bowling style. Rules says locked on delivery past bady. Seems that allows for some bending on draw-back...

* Is a beginning back-step allowed in either style? I think I have seen other pitchers in league taking a step back before delivery, slow-pitch style, but that would seem to be illegal in USSSA Modified, so maybe we have a mutant offspring of Modified & Slow rules, who knows?

* What is benefit of IncrediBall vs any old ball?

* What kind of speeds can be achieved with "bowling" style vs slingshot? My guess is slingshot has more velocity (sounds faster, even)...
 

petebanta

Addicted to Softballfans
Anybody know of a video that shows someone throwing legal modified pitches with decent velocity? I can find none out there...

Most seracheds for modified show hirls playing with windmill-style pitches that begin overhead (illegal in USSSA Co-ed Rules).

I did find one video of a lady talking about a figure-8 fast-pitch take-back, which I think would be legal (says arm can go behind the back)...
 

gofisch

Active Member
Thanks! Couple questions...

* What are differences between bowling style and slingshot delivery exactly? Is slingshot more side-arm-y (but with under-waist delivery)? So, elbow is allowed to bend during motion?

The arm goes above the shoulder on the back swing, guys turn sideways on the pitch(hips aren't square to the plate), the ball is/can be outside the wrist.

* Is any elbow bending allowed in bowling style. Rules says locked on delivery past bady. Seems that allows for some bending on draw-back...

No, but a slight bend happens.

* Is a beginning back-step allowed in either style? I think I have seen other pitchers in league taking a step back before delivery, slow-pitch style, but that would seem to be illegal in USSSA Modified, so maybe we have a mutant offspring of Modified & Slow rules, who knows?

Strict enforcement of Utrip rules do not allow step back off the rubber. Leagues can and will modify rules.

* What is benefit of IncrediBall vs any old ball?

An IncrediBall is the same weight and size as a regulation ball but will bounce back to you better.

* What kind of speeds can be achieved with "bowling" style vs slingshot? My guess is slingshot has more velocity (sounds faster, even)...

I could tell you mph numbers but it really doesn't matter. Slingshot is/can be faster.


There was a couple of video's on here at one time. On the figure eight motion, its not allowed under strict "bowling" guidelines.
 

Gamble

Addicted to Softballfans
Thanks! Couple questions...

* What are differences between bowling style and slingshot delivery exactly? Is slingshot more side-arm-y (but with under-waist delivery)? So, elbow is allowed to bend during motion?

If you look at 'slingshot' pitching, it looks something like the last 2/3 of a windmill delivery, and can really generate some serious speed. IIRC, Joan Joyce actually preferred the slingshot style for fastpitch -- something like it gave her more movement and control.
 

baseman

in your face nancy grace
biggest thing to remember is before you get fast get accurate. Another very effective pitch for you to try is the backhand delivary. Basically you throw the ball with your hand facing away from the plate. this puts spin on the ball and causes alot of pop ups and grounders. also it alows you to have more control over where the ball ends up.
 

gofisch

Active Member
biggest thing to remember is before you get fast get accurate. Another very effective pitch for you to try is the backhand delivary. Basically you throw the ball with your hand facing away from the plate. this puts spin on the ball and causes alot of pop ups and grounders. also it alows you to have more control over where the ball ends up.

I use this pitch, but some Umps will call it, so I usually don't mention it. If you hold the ball across the two narrow seams it will rise if you throw it mid strike zone. At least mine does.:D
 

TH#2

Addicted to Softballfans
for picture of both blowing and sling pitch.. check out this link..

http://10manmodified.com/web/default.aspx

Anybody know of a video that shows someone throwing legal modified pitches with decent velocity? I can find none out there...

Most seracheds for modified show hirls playing with windmill-style pitches that begin overhead (illegal in USSSA Co-ed Rules).

I did find one video of a lady talking about a figure-8 fast-pitch take-back, which I think would be legal (says arm can go behind the back)...
 

gofisch

Active Member
for picture of both blowing and sling pitch.. check out this link..

http://10manmodified.com/web/default.aspx


I have seen this before. I bookmarked it this time. Thanks. There are a couple things that I was taught that he says are legal that I don't think are, one being that the hips and shoulders don't have to be square to the plate when setting up to pitch, also some interpretations of the rules do no allow figure eight. But its the best thing I've seen so far that explains and shows the basics.
 

blakcherry329

Well-Known Member
You should check out the ASA pitchers only thread. It's mostly slowpitch, but there is some modified pointers in there, too.
 

Mattdawg18

Schmoozerator on SBZ
biggest thing to remember is before you get fast get accurate. Another very effective pitch for you to try is the backhand delivary. Basically you throw the ball with your hand facing away from the plate. this puts spin on the ball and causes alot of pop ups and grounders. also it alows you to have more control over where the ball ends up.

for picture of both blowing and sling pitch.. check out this link..

http://10manmodified.com/web/default.aspx

These two know what they're talking about!!!!;)
 

petebanta

Addicted to Softballfans
biggest thing to remember is before you get fast get accurate. Another very effective pitch for you to try is the backhand delivary. Basically you throw the ball with your hand facing away from the plate. this puts spin on the ball and causes alot of pop ups and grounders. also it alows you to have more control over where the ball ends up.

Sure, use that in hi-arc all the time to generate backspin. Haven't tried that with the quicker release, but will...
 

petebanta

Addicted to Softballfans
for picture of both blowing and sling pitch.. check out this link..

http://10manmodified.com/web/default.aspx

First, I think you meant BOWLING, not what you wrote. ::chuckle::

This is helpful. Very different deliveries. We must play 10-man (and we do have 10 fielders).

So, question then is about bowling wind-up. Must it always be straight back, or can you legally move outside this straight-back swing? Seems rules say hand can come behind back, so some winding/figure-8 seems legal, and a way to get some more arm speed.

What are the limits there?

Was what the Canadian fellow does here legal 10-man delivery (other than the step-back, which they must allow)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LzcwzlFM44
 
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