New utrip rules, etc

[blakcherry329]

HR rules have been around since I started tourney ball on a regular basis back in 1993. ASA was the only game in town, and in D I can't remember if the first one counted or not, but then next was an out, then each one after resulted in the player being ejected from the game. You didn't have a sub, you lose. The difference was that equipment was such that beginners like myself at 165 lbs weren't hitting HR's, and the guys who did/could, moved up. Pitcher safety really became an issue when the bats got TOO hot. The balls back then, Blue Dots and Red Dots where I was, were good....the bats were good enough to accurately display the hitters ability. Now the bats are the talent, and the easiest place to get it past is the guy standing the closest (was then too - just not as easy OR as dangerous). Changing HR limits won't do much to pitcher safety as there will still be a lot of scenarios that call for a base hit and not a long ball. Also I blame little weiners......bc those guys do it just to get their rocks off.

Yeah, that's what I meant. There have been HR limits since I started playing UTrip. But technology has made it really dangerous out there in the past few years.
The Blue and Red Dots were stuff we played with in pick up games. White SB12s and, sometimes, the Thunders were the ball of choice in NNJ. But composites were still new and there was A LOT of bad bats out there. So metal was still the main bat. Also, I played primarily modified, back in the day. I only dabbled in ASA slow pitch. lol Middle wasn't too much of an issue because the pitcher has more control over where the ball's going. Not to say I didn't get hit, but I knew it was coming. Can't stand 8 feet away from the plate in modified and expect to get a hit.

Even if you just need a single, there wouldn't be a reason to cut down your swing if you had HRs to use. Mofos hardly ever do what's best for the team over what's best for their ego. (until you get to D and above Tourney ball. E is like League Plus, imo. lol). Unlimited HRs or at least an adequate amount of HRs, people wouldn't need to adjust their swings to keep the ball in the park, imo.

 

[TWmccoy]

Lets not downplay the significance of bat weights either. Everyone can generate bat speed now, as we're basically swingning loaded whiffleball bats.

When I started playing (1999), 30 oz bats were the norm, and 28 oz was light weight.

Making 28 oz the minimum allowed would cut down a lot of the cheapness in the game. Guys would actually have to be strong to hit bombs.

 

[MaverickAH]

I’m going to be highly controversial here:

1. Get composite bats out of the game. They make things too easy and too dangerous. I’m dating myself, but back when singlewall bats were the norm, the best ones had a sweet spot of 3.5” max. Even when doublewall bats made their entrance, the sweet spot only increased a couple of inches on the best ones. Go back to metal bats!🌶🌶🌶

2. Pitchers need to learn their craft! See more and more pitchers who either come forward or just stand still after releasing the pitch. Very few actually back up anymore with a good sense of where their pitch is going and where it will be hit.

3. Less and less hitters seem to be aware of proper etiquette. It’s better the higher up you go but the danger is more prevalent in lower leagues where control and skill are lessened.

 

[blakcherry329]

Back in the day I used a 38oz Easton in modified. Memories do do do do do do do

 

[etnstudios]

i still have my dad's 38 oz worth. bat swings you

 

[ilyk2win]

I’m going to be highly controversial here:

1. Get composite bats out of the game. They make things too easy and too dangerous. I’m dating myself, but back when singlewall bats were the norm, the best ones had a sweet spot of 3.5” max. Even when doublewall bats made their entrance, the sweet spot only increased a couple of inches on the best ones. Go back to metal bats!🌶🌶🌶

2. Pitchers need to learn their craft! See more and more pitchers who either come forward or just stand still after releasing the pitch. Very few actually back up anymore with a good sense of where their pitch is going and where it will be hit.

3. Less and less hitters seem to be aware of proper etiquette. It’s better the higher up you go but the danger is more prevalent in lower leagues where control and skill are lessened.

Nothing controversial in there EXCEPT to the manufacturers basically printing money with composite bats, and the little-weiner crew who need them to feel like they hit "seeds" or "lasers" or whatever stupid terminology exists with today's younger players. It took me a long time to transition from metal to composite, and rebelled against the titanium bats when they first appeared. I even thought doublewall bats were heading the game in a bad direction, but enjoyed them. As a pitcher, never felt like I was a target or indefensible with double walled bats, even with rock hard balls. And back then IIRC the mound was at 46-47 feet, with 12' arc in ASA.

 

[jbo911]

Nothing controversial in there EXCEPT to the manufacturers basically printing money with composite bats, and the little-weiner crew who need them to feel like they hit "seeds" or "lasers" or whatever stupid terminology exists with today's younger players. It took me a long time to transition from metal to composite, and rebelled against the titanium bats when they first appeared. I even thought doublewall bats were heading the game in a bad direction, but enjoyed them. As a pitcher, never felt like I was a target or indefensible with double walled bats, even with rock hard balls. And back then IIRC the mound was at 46-47 feet, with 12' arc in ASA.

The only thing is if they go back to the ring test the metal bats don't last anywhere as long. I still don't think the companies want that, as they like the breaking but I think the metal costs more to make.

 

[TWmccoy]

The only thing is if they go back to the ring test the metal bats don't last anywhere as long. I still don't think the companies want that, as they like the breaking but I think the metal costs more to make.

Metal bats last infinitely long if you hit only .52s with them.

Honestly, .52 300 balls and aluminum bats would be plenty good. I have some good doublewalls that destroy .52s.

 

[Hiltz]

1. Get composite bats out of the game. They make things too easy and too dangerous. I’m dating myself, but back when singlewall bats were the norm, the best ones had a sweet spot of 3.5” max. Even when doublewall bats made their entrance, the sweet spot only increased a couple of inches on the best ones. Go back to metal bats!🌶🌶🌶

The best thing about singlewalls is they do not break in. Peel the wrapper and the bat is as good as it's ever going to be, none of this sneaky breaking down and failing bs.

Metal bats last infinitely long if you hit only .52s with them.

Honestly, .52 300 balls and aluminum bats would be plenty good. I have some good doublewalls that destroy .52s.

I love using my old metals in BP. Focusing on hitting that small sweetspot makes it feel like cheating when you go back to composite. Sadly I don't think we'll ever see many new alloy bats. Between the higher manufacturing cost and increased durability, they'd put bat companies out of business.

 

[TWmccoy]

The best thing about singlewalls is they do not break in. Peel the wrapper and the bat is as good as it's ever going to be, none of this sneaky breaking down and failing bs.



I love using my old metals in BP. Focusing on hitting that small sweetspot makes it feel like cheating when you go back to composite. Sadly I don't think we'll ever see many new alloy bats. Between the higher manufacturing cost and increased durability, they'd put bat companies out of business.

The only way alloy bats would be practical again is (as I mentioned) you only hit .52s with them. Alloy bats don't last when you hit harder balls. I used to break quite a few of them in the old days hitting .44 375s in cold weather.

Luckily I have enough metal BP bats to last several lifetimes. I've broken a couple ESTs at the handle randomly in BP, but never cracked a bat in the sweetspot hitting .52s.

Singlewall bats were all that existed when I started playing. ESTs came out immediately afterward, and they were insane. Even by today's standards a good aluminum doublewall bat gets good distance. They just aren't durable.

 

[dttruax]

Honestly, .52 300 balls and aluminum bats would be plenty good. I have some good doublewalls that destroy .52s.

Curious as to which ones. I like some of the older double walls

 

[TWmccoy]

The only way alloy bats would be practical again is (as I mentioned) you only hit .52s with them. Alloy bats don't last when you hit harder balls.

Luckily I have enough metal BP bats to last several lifetimes. I've broken a couple ESTs at the handle randomly in BP, but never cracked a bat in the sweetspot hitting .52s.

Singlewall bats were all that existed when I started playing. ESTs came out immediately afterward, and they were insane. Even by today's standards a good aluminum doublewall bat gets good distance. They just aren't durable.

Curious as to which ones. I like some of the older double walls

Worth ESTs, 3DXs, Easton CV12, Demarini Rayzr.

 

[blakcherry329]

Pick up a WorthEST XRed. They're on that ASA banned list, last time I checked, but nobody cares about alloy bats. I had a 30oz but it felt balanced and swung really light. Rayzr is a very underrated bat, imo.

 

[TWmccoy]

Pick up a WorthEST XRed. They're on that ASA banned list, last time I checked, but nobody cares about alloy bats. I had a 30oz but it felt balanced and swung really light. Rayzr is a very underrated bat, imo.

IDK why ASA bothered banning a bunch of arbitrary bats years ago. The stuff legal in ASA now is WAAAYYY hotter than all the banned stuff.

 

[ImminentDanger]

IDK why ASA bothered banning a bunch of arbitrary bats years ago. The stuff legal in ASA now is WAAAYYY hotter than all the banned stuff.

But I agree - It was stupid, in a commonsense way - It deprived people of getting the use of their personal equipment.

%%%

 

[jbo911]

IDK why ASA bothered banning a bunch of arbitrary bats years ago. The stuff legal in ASA now is WAAAYYY hotter than all the banned stuff.

One of the claims about specific models like the one he mentioned was that they submitted one bat for approval, then sold a completely different one. If that's the case, I prefer a permanent banning to the utrip "bring them into compliance and allow both models" approach utrip takes. They allowed a lot of teams to pay to win with the first batch synergy because of that.

Otherwise you're right, but must of those once banned bats aren't banned any longer. They have a complicated explanation on their website, but must people just moved on.

 

[TWmccoy]

One of the claims about specific models like the one he mentioned was that they submitted one bat for approval, then sold a completely different one. If that's the case, I prefer a permanent banning to the utrip "bring them into compliance and allow both models" approach utrip takes. They allowed a lot of teams to pay to win with the first batch synergy because of that.

Otherwise you're right, but must of those once banned bats aren't banned any longer. They have a complicated explanation on their website, but must people just moved on.

I still see the occasional Synergy Extended when umping, but that's about it from the banned bats.

1st batch Synergy is still probably the hottest thing I've ever swung. Durability was crap, but my god that bat hit nukes. No Synergy made since has held a candle to it. I can see why it got banned in a hurry.

I have no clue who runs things at USSSA, or how they come up with a consensus on bat/ball regulations. Nothing they do seems well thought out or rational.

IMO, 240 bats are pretty much the same as 220s, but 240s start at lower compression, and fail/break/crack MUCH faster. I wouldn't ***** so much if there were some more durable, decent performing 240s out there. However, right now there aren't. All the bats are designed to provide about 50 good swings, then fail. I hate that.

 

[oppositefield85]

this was a good read, it me feel retirement 7 yrs ago was good idea haha

 

[blakcherry329]

In a regular "yellow ball" league, without bat testing, that can get pretty dangerous. Just change the balls. But then nobody can mi**** a ball 300'.
I can still swing all the old stuff in my signature in my Clincher leagues. Every team has at least one shaved bat, anyway. smh Nobody cares.

 

[Hiltz]

IDK why ASA bothered banning a bunch of arbitrary bats years ago. The stuff legal in ASA now is WAAAYYY hotter than all the banned stuff.

I read that it had to do with ASA2004 stamped bats still being used in fastpitch. When ASA changed the standard in 2013, they also switched to the .52/300 for slowpitch but kept the .44/375 for fastpitch.

A new stamp ASA bat vs. a 5000 Synergy Extended is pretty even with .52's, but that Extended with .44's and fast pitching is a lethal combo.

 

[jbo911]

Does anyone else think that this new era of high powered offense is having other side effects as well?

Pitchers are obviously harder to come by, but we're having trouble getting and keeping outfielders as well now that you basically have to play a five man.

I can't get an accurate count, but my team has used close to 20 different outfielders over the past three years. That's an insane number imo.

I knew we'd get to a point where pitchers were hard to come by, and limited the games growth, but I think we're at a point where outfielders are going to as well. My team currently has two back up pitchers, and only one consistent outfielder.

 

[Hiltz]

I've noticed the opposite around here; lots of guys wanting to move to the outfield and very few decent infielders left.

 

[hitless45]

Yes. I don't like to give credit such as high powered offense to those teams/guys that obviously have no business playing just cause they can swing a bat. Guys playing outfield and quitting are probably those that don't really know how to play the position, I realize it's not easy playing 5 man being out there but jeez common, not wanting to play cause you can't/don't want to chase balls down. I guess that says a lot about players of today vs players of yesteryears.

 

[etnstudios]

as a fat guy, i sympathize with how little fun it is to play an entire day chasing down balls in the sun. hotter bats=less balls staying in the infield + dropping an outfielder = "why am i doing this again"

 

[ilyk2win]

Shewt, seems like everyone around here wants to be a pitcher. Now wanting to and being good don't necessarily go hand in hand, but a lot of guys want to feed that ego and be the center of attention. I don't mind it as the game obviously can't be played without a pitcher, but I do hate seeing it when it's someone who is very good at a "skilled" position, as that talent is lost from there then.

 

[jbo911]

as a fat guy, i sympathize with how little fun it is to play an entire day chasing down balls in the sun. hotter bats=less balls staying in the infield + dropping an outfielder = "why am i doing this again"

That's what I'm saying. Everyone is cool with it until they hit thirty, then they all want to be infielders or just quit. That's the guys that started out fairly skinny.

It really exposed the ones that can't play too.

 

[jbo911]

I've noticed the opposite around here; lots of guys wanting to move to the outfield and very few decent infielders left.

Let's be real. Most of softball, D on down, just gets out ift the way or oles balls they think are too hot anyway. Very few guys stay in front of hard hit balls anymore.

I know what you're saying, and that's how it started back in the early stages. I think it's just moved in to the second stage of what they're doing to the game here because the number of decent outfielders is shrinking fast here. Could just be here. Food's not great here though so I don't get it.

 

[nike33kjk]

Been playing outfield my whole career. Now I'm playing Senior as well, and I get to deal with the shortstop who complains he's getting tried having to go out for the cut-off throws.
"Hey, no big deal...I'll just throw it in harder to get it to you...from the fence. And then let me courtesy run for you next at bat, while I'm at it."

 

[etnstudios]

there's the real reason for people wanting to pitch: get the courtesy runner

 

[jbo911]

Been playing outfield my whole career. Now I'm playing Senior as well, and I get to deal with the shortstop who complains he's getting tried having to go out for the cut-off throws.
"Hey, no big deal...I'll just throw it in harder to get it to you...from the fence. And then let me courtesy run for you next at bat, while I'm at it."

This hits really close to home as we had one who would roll the ball to me at pitcher because he was so tired from the same thing. Thanks, you're almost twenty years younger than me, but please will the wet ball just in from the outfield across the dirt to me because you're a lazy sack of crap.