USSSA Paint from bat transfers onto ball

So this happened in my league game tonight. We are currently playing U-trip rules but will be WSL at the start of next season. It's a close game my team is home and chasing 2. There are runners on 2nd and 3rd. Batter smoke a ball over the center field fence. Now chasing 5. The shot is no more than 15ft high and a screamer. Upon ball being brought back in I noticed a red mark on the ball. I immediately bring it to the attention of the umpire and ask for a ruling on the bat. Umpire states he cannot make a determination as to eligibility of a bat based on paint transfer nor can he determine exactly which bat did it. I've been around slow pitch since I was a kid I know an illegal when I see it. The bat in question is an old 1 piece miken freak. It's has the red barrel and yellow writing. It may actually be a super freak 98. So, here are my questions:
1) When there is evidence of paint transfer from a bat to a ball should the bat be removed from play?
2) Due to the age of the bat is it even legal?
3) What course of action does my team have when it comes to this?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. If possible could you also cite the rule. Thank you and have a good night.
 

Hiltz

Built for comfort
1) No, that's ridiculous.
2) How old a bat is has no bearing on whether it's approved or not.
3) Stop complaining.

You can question a bat if you think it's not approved but not for marking up a ball. And if buddy was hitting 15' screamers out with an old Super Freak, you should be thankful he wasn't using a utrip bat.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
1. Correlation does not equal causation. The fact that there is a red mark on the ball does not mean it was paint transfer from the bat.
2. Bats that don't have the 2012 thumbprint stamp are not legal for use in any tournament nor 99% of USSSA sanctioned leagues. It would be up to your league bylaws. All of the leagues I've played in have required the thumbprint since 2014. Neither original Freak nor the Super Freak 98 had the thumbprint.
3. If the umpire doesn't want to do anything about it, you'd have to protest the bat using whatever the mechanism is in your league to do so. The governing rule is 4.11.6 as to possible penalties.
 
1. Correlation does not equal causation. The fact that there is a red mark on the ball does not mean it was paint transfer from the bat.
2. Bats that don't have the 2012 thumbprint stamp are not legal for use in any tournament nor 99% of USSSA sanctioned leagues. It would be up to your league bylaws. All of the leagues I've played in have required the thumbprint since 2014. Neither original Freak nor the Super Freak 98 had the thumbprint.
3. If the umpire doesn't want to do anything about it, you'd have to protest the bat using whatever the mechanism is in your league to do so. The governing rule is 4.11.6 as to possible penalties.
Thank you.
 
1) No, that's ridiculous.
2) How old a bat is has no bearing on whether it's approved or not.
3) Stop complaining.

You can question a bat if you think it's not approved but not for marking up a ball. And if buddy was hitting 15' screamers out with an old Super Freak, you should be thankful he wasn't using a utrip bat.
1) Please explain why it's ridiculous
2) If age has no bearing on the legality of a bat then the difference in stamps means nothing because a bat that was legal under one stamp may not be legal under the stamps that came after it. We are seeing that currently with the 220 and 240 bats along with their subsequent stamps.
3) I was unaware that asking a question was complaining. I'm not sure if you remember, or were aware of people doing it, but when the super freak 98s were being produced people were buying the ultra II and painting it to look like the sf and the og Freak 98 since their general construction, aestetically speaking, was identical. I can't say explicitly that the bat in asking about is one of these bats.

I like many of us understand that things breakdown over time. Paint is something that does this. So at what point of paint breakdown and rub off do we say it's gotta go? At what point do we say okay that bat is too old for use? It's stamp is from over a decade ago.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
I like many of us understand that things breakdown over time. Paint is something that does this. So at what point of paint breakdown and rub off do we say it's gotta go? At what point do we say okay that bat is too old for use? It's stamp is from over a decade ago.
If it has the 2012 thumbprint and you're league doesn't prohibit it, then the answer is whenever the umpire feels it's too worn for play. I've taken bats out for being too worn, but not many. You'd probably have a better chance trying to get your league to compression test before play, my local league tests and stickers every year and it is written in the league by-laws that the umpire can take any bat to have it tested at any time.
 

Hiltz

Built for comfort
2) If age has no bearing on the legality of a bat then the difference in stamps means nothing because a bat that was blah blah blah

The difference in stamps means EVERYTHING and the age of the bat means nothing. If your league allows 220 bats then there are plenty of 10yo bats that could still be used.

3) I was unaware that asking a question was complaining.

If buddy had hit a dribbler to your SS instead of a "15ft high screamer" over the fence, you wouldn't have questioned a paint smear on the ball.
 

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
Know the rules for the particular sanction/organization you play in.
Know any rules that are implemented by your leagues.
And know what you are and how to protest properly within rules
 
The difference in stamps means EVERYTHING and the age of the bat means nothing. If your league allows 220 bats then there are plenty of 10yo bats that could still be used.



If buddy had hit a dribbler to your SS instead of a "15ft high screamer" over the fence, you wouldn't have questioned a paint smear on the ball.
What raised the question about paint transfer was the fact that he hit that screamer. Taking nothing away from the guy that hit it because he does hit dingers but I've never seen him hit one like that and I've played against him for close to 20yrs. I've also never seen a "legit" bat leave a paint transfer. I've only ever seen paint transfer come from those infamous repainted Ultra IIs. Not saying it can't or doesn't happen but that I've never seen it happen. I've asked a few of the umpires that I know since posting and they all said the same thing. That if a team or player brings paint transfer to their attention that they immediately confiscate the bat to be compression tested by their LD on the spot. If the bat passes then it is stickered and returned to the team. If it fails the player who used it at the time of confiscation is ejected for using an illegal bat, suspended 2 games (the game they are ejected from counts as 1 of 2) and the bat is sent off to be tested further by the sanctioning body.
 

96packers

OG Titletown
Used to repaint buddy's aluminum Worth CF3 (weighting I believe) candy apple red.

Always a awesome big red mark on the ball and they could never figure out from where...lol
 
Used to repaint buddy's aluminum Worth CF3 (weighting I believe) candy apple red.

Always a awesome big red mark on the ball and they could never figure out from where...lol
Considering I'm not an umpire, but someone still trying to learn the various rule books, I would consider that to be an altered bat.
 
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