TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Yeah, but nothing like classic Ms.
Pro M challenge......
- Thread starter TWmccoy
- Start date
Yeah, but nothing like classic Ms.
Zarkoff500
Addicted to Softballfans
Agree. I thought the reason for the 52's was safety and warm weather related. Now the Pro M and new Utrip stamp...
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
The Pro M plays well in Viera (hot, 325' fences), but is way too much ball in CO.
I wish USSSA would just use C+ for everything other than stadiums.
Zarkoff500
Addicted to Softballfans
I agree. I have no problem with the C+ as it performs well in most temps, is easier on bats and I would much rather take a middle shot from one @ 50 degrees vs the Classic M. My league recently switched back to Classic M's after performance complaints and I am not looking forward to pitching.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
I wouldn't pitch with classic M's either. Also, (as you mentioned) they destroy bats. Classic Ms are my least favorite ball to use, regardless of temperature.
Classic m has always been my least favorite, but at least in south ga it was just the way rolled and shaved bats would make it knuckle. I moved back up north and it is ridiculous below 70 degrees. Man i hate that ball.
What classic ms are you used to using? I have to ask, because gsl ms sound and feel way hotter than pro ms to me. I haven't hit them below 50 though, just other 44/375s for years.
D-ROCK13
Well-Known Member
We have 2 ball options, the Usssa Zn pro m, or the Usssa worth gold dot extreme classic m. The gold dots are hard in the cold and kill bats like crazy but above 75 they get mush and id rather hit a .52. The pro m flew just as well as the gold dot at 50, maybe better, saw alot more knuckling line drives. Havent hit one in extreme heat yet to compare there, but so far the pro m just feels better off the bat to me
Definitely if you're counting the heat. It's much better then, but in the cold we can't keep the classic ms in the yard.
Could just be coincidence, but the pro ms seem to be mi**** a little more easily.
Our last tournament it was cool for our 8 am game, ended 6 of the seven innings with a dbo. 4 with 0 outs. Next game warmed up to 70, with the wind blowing in we hit zero. That is just a ridiculous difference. A tiny bit of that could be over correcting, but we still get 1 AND a dhh, so we weren't really changing our swings.
D-ROCK13
Well-Known Member
Classic ms definitely fly in the cold as well, i see a dozen or so hrs hit every week over 2 coed and 2 mens games, 300ft fields. That number is probably half as much in summer because of the heat, time will tell if the pro m changes that.
Yeah as a pitcher i hate classic ms, I've been hit in just about every extremity over the years, .52s hurt a ton less than .40s or .44s for sure, especially on bone...
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Classic Ms are definitely more temperature dependent than Pro Ms. In cold/cool weather classic Ms will feel harder off the bat and probably travel further than Pro Ms. As it gets hotter, classic Ms mush up dramatically while Pro Ms stay fairly firm.
I'd prefer to use Pro Ms because I feel like they're a steadier ball. Not as much performance fluctuation based on temperature.
For sheer distance I'd take a Gold Dot Extreme classic M over a Pro M.
I'd prefer to use Pro Ms because I feel like they're a steadier ball. Not as much performance fluctuation based on temperature.
For sheer distance I'd take a Gold Dot Extreme classic M over a Pro M.
View attachment 67421
12 days later and it's still tender to the touch. And they wonder why numbers are dropping.
They all seem to suck in those conditions, but i didn't play a game above 60 degrees until 2 weekends ago, and that was only the mid afternoon games. After months of hitting rocks I'm unable to be objective i think lol.
[GALLERY=media, 34946]20210926_101508_Burst01 by jbo911 posted Sep 26, 2021 at 10:19 AM[/GALLERY]
Just an update, i still have this mark from 5/13. My calf injury on this calf i suffered in July the doc thinks is a congealed hematoma from this impact.
I played in a charity wsl tournament yesterday, and even with 44/400s i felt i had noticeably more time to react. Even with no testing, a few obviously failing bats, and our final game being at 50 degrees.
It was awesome to get to play defense again.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
I hate classic Ms, especially stuff like Gold Dot Extremes. Those things are WAAAYYYY harder than any other classic M or Pro M I've hit.
I really don't know why USSSA didn't embrace the C+ more. IMO it's such a better ball.
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
I think a large part of it is that they don't want to be seen as following ASA, it's a stupid reason but that's my guess. The knuckling is much more extreme with the + than with the M, at least in the games I've worked with each. Of course the Pro M knuckles more than the Classic M too but nobody seems bothered by that until they get nailed with one.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
For whatever reason I feel like the Pro M knuckles more than any other ball I've ever hit. The damn things just come off the bat so erratic, and it gets worse as the temps go up.
D-ROCK13
Well-Known Member
I agree, the first few Pro Ms we had felt totally different than the newer ones we have now. They are decent below 60f but above that feel mushy and do weird things in the air, knuckling alot and tailing, and dying off as well. Not sure what they've changed but, I'd rather hit classic ms or .52s
This is why i wonder if they need to go with something more like usa's bbs testing for balls too. There is as much as 50 feet(maybe more) between two types of the same ball in the same conditions. I'm not talking like the 2004 cork 44/375 versus the poly core in the same balls either. I'm talking between two flagship balls from different companies. The difference between a pro tac and a syco, both from worth, is noticeable even.
I wonder if the pro m issue is more of a Dudley issue though.
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
I haven't seen anybody above a C hit the USA .52s but those I've seen knuckle as much or more than the Major guys hitting the ProM.
@jbo911 I don't know if it's a Dudley QC issue or if Dudley was told by USSSA to change which end of the acceptable range they are producing to. 25 out of 30 weeks that ProM from 2019 was too much ball, it was more dangerous especially coming off Conference bats. This year has been much better.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Could be. I've hit Demarini, Worth, and AD Starr Tattoo Pro Ms, and all of them perform SIGNIFICANTLY better than the current Dudleys. Better (harder) feel, and way more distance.
The current Dudley ZN Pro Ms feel like some old waterlogged balls left in someone's car trunk all summer.
I'm not opposed to some performance, but these classic ms have to go imo. Nobody is going to keep playing if they suffer this type of deep tissue injury, and baserunners are hit fairly often. I shouldn't have this circular mark on my leg 4 months later. It's just so stupid that this was the choice they made to make the game safer. The game was safer for the 6 months or whatever it took for them to design new bats.
I remember hitting that mv-1 for the first time, with our normal mix of bp balls, and everyone saying damn this bat is good. You might be able to find me posting here that they must be testing with the classic ms already because that bat is stupid hot. Speaking of, if utrip tested every bat at most tournaments and tested bats with stadium balls (it's a legal ball after all) i assume that would help some.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
I agree about classic Ms. As much as I ***** about Pro Ms, I'd still rather hit them than classic Ms. Classic Ms are way too temperature sensitive, and cause devastating injuries if they hit people. Plus, they destroy bats.
Pro Ms are a step down in performance from classic Ms, and I really doubt anyone saw that coming.
Exactly. Utrip went from the 44/400 elites to the classic m to lower bbs and make the game safer, and whatever worth is doing with the super gold dots and today's bats is just crapping all over that.
In addition, the way they destroy bats is also making them fail faster. I've got 830 and 930 league games tonight, and I'm sure I'll be throwing 400+ compression balls because of the temp to at least a couple of 200 compression bats. Now that makes for a nice relaxing league game.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Almost all the leagues around here use ASA .52 300 balls. Temps are cooling off a lot. There's no way in hell I'd want to hit classic Ms (or Pro Ms) at night.
IMO, every league should use .52s. Save the classic Ms for tournies.