Any Proper Appeal

[RelaxedFan]

Scenario
Our league has two umpires (home plate and right side of infield). A runner slides into third and is called out by one of the umpires on a non-force play (can’t remember which one of the umpires). My team is in the 3rd base dugout and had a great view of our runner being safe. I appeal that the runner was safe. The umpires talk it over and call the runner out. In between innings, the other umpire (didn’t make the original call) lets me know that the runner was clearly safe and he would have overturned the call, but since I just appealed that “he was safe” the runner was out. The Ump informs me that there is a proper way to appeal as in - “I appeal that the runners hand was on the bag when the tag was applied”. I took this as a learning experience; however, if I appeal a play now, I always appeal in the more specific way but most umpires think I’m being sarcastic with the appeal. All the other teams just appeal “he was safe” or “blah blah you are wrong”.

Is there a proper wording for an appeal (besides having some respect with the appeal)?

 

[NCASAUmp]

*facepalm*

Oh boy.

First, asking umpires to confer with each other is NOT an appeal. Stop using that word that way.

The umpire who talked with you was wrong on so many levels.
1 - There is no proper wording for asking an umpire to confer with his/her partner. If you think that an umpire missed a certain aspect of the play (such as a pulled foot or a dropped ball), just ask the umpire who made the call to talk with his/her partner. That's it. No fancy wording, no rituals, just ask. Ask politely, of course.
2 - Two, umpires never EVER "overrule" each other. They may confer with each other, and one umpire may present new information that the other umpire did not have. However, the final call on the play rests with the umpire whose responsibility it is to make that call. In other words, let's say we have a play at first base and I'm the base umpire. The throw beats the runner, and I call him out. The offense thinks the first baseman pulled his foot. I can go to my partner and ask him/her what s/he saw. I can then take it or leave it. If I believe my partner saw things clearly, I may go with his/her call. If I'm not sure my partner had a good view, I may stick with my original call. Either way, it's still my call.
3 - Once the play is done, it's done. Move on. An umpire shouldn't continue to jabber about the play after the fact and say, "oh, I saw things very differently." He's basically saying that you got hosed on the call.

If I EVER have a partner throw me under the bus like that, I'll string him up by his nards on the nearest flagpole.

 

[chiefgator]

Yep, exactly what NCASA said. I have had the best luck (as a player, coach, and ump) with a simple statement.

"Blue, I think your partner may have had a different angle. Could you please talk with him to see if he saw the play differently?"

Then, NO MATTER what happens, if he changes it or not, be polite and thank him for conferring with the other ump. If he does not change it to the way you want him to, and you show your ass, he will be very reluctant to talk to his partner again.

 

[RelaxedFan]

Thanks to both you.

What is the difference between an appeal and asking them to confer? Our league desides home/away by a coin toss each game. During this toss, they go over the basic league rules and always say "if you appeal, go to the umpire who made the call and they will decide if they want to check with the other ump". I'm guessing this wording is possibly wrong on many levels...

 

[chiefgator]

The difference is that you are asking for "help" on a judgement. The call has already been made.

USSSA definition

APPEAL PLAY refers to a play in which the umpire cannot make a ruling until a decision is
requested by the defensive or offensive team. This appeal must be made before the next legal
pitch, intentional walk, illegal pitcher action or before all fielders have left fair territory.

 

[chiefgator]

So, yes, the ump that uses that verbiage during the pre-game could use a bit better language to convey his thoughts.

One thing you will find with umps, we are sorta like lawyers... the devil is in the details. One word can change the entire meaning and application of the rule.

 

[NCASAUmp]

So, yes, the ump that uses that verbiage during the pre-game could use a bit better language to convey his thoughts.

One thing you will find with umps, we are sorta like lawyers... the devil is in the details. One word can change the entire meaning and application of the rule.

A simple changing of the word "or" to "and" in ASA's rule 3-1 allowed them to drop every single UTrip bat from the non-approved bat list.

Yes, we have to be very specific in what we say. You'll sometimes witness it on here when two of us umps discuss a play.

 

[shotcaller]

at coin toss

When i am plate umpire at the coin toss i will say to the coaches that if there is any question about a call to wait until time is called and ask the umpire that made the call if it is an appealable call for help,then we will discuss it and the umpire that made the call will change it or not depending on what we discuss. I dont ever umpire by forum ,debate or vote but will listen if asked politely.I hustle on every play and sometimes i get blocked or am out of position but not becaus i am not trying,sometimes bodies get between me and the play.i get on sites like this to read scenarios and to get other umps takes on plays and rulings,18 years as an umpire and im still learning new things.