Rawlings HoH Black Horween Versus Pro Preferred Black Kip

JB_on_Baseball

New Member
I’m continuing to work through the final design of my custom Rawlings and, though I’m not looking to stir up too much of a storm on a topic that’s probably been debated many times, I’d appreciate any guidance on the differences between Heart of the Hide black horween versus Pro Preferred black kip.

I’m tending toward Pro Preferred because the HoH’s I’ve had lately just seem to get floppy way too fast, and the PP’s have held their shape and stayed firmer longer. But I haven’t had any experience with HoH black horween.

Thanks all.
 

beeblebobble

Starting Player
HoH Black Oiled Horween is no longer an option on the customizer. All the colored leathers are Japanese Tanned Leather. Pretty sure Timber and Sandlot are the last of the pull up leathers as well. If you're happy with PP I'd stick to PP.
 

84bbchamps67

Addicted to Softballfans
So disappointed in the black “Heart of the Hide” leather. Definitely not even close to the Still Horween HOH “ we all know and love...,ughhhhhh

Just called Rawlings Cust Service and he swore up and down that the “Custom” Black HOH is not the “flimsy” hoh leather we all hate...Unless I get a sample of the leather that my custom will have, no way am I spending $400 on a custom HOH...Hello Pro Pref customers.....
 

NYC

Swag on 100.
So disappointed in the black “Heart of the Hide” leather. Definitely not even close to the Still Horween HOH “ we all know and love...,ughhhhhh

Just called Rawlings Cust Service and he swore up and down that the “Custom” Black HOH is not the “flimsy” hoh leather we all hate...Unless I get a sample of the leather that my custom will have, no way am I spending $400 on a custom HOH...Hello Pro Pref customers.....
I've had some crappy made in USA horween gloves that felt thin and flimsy, and others that felt stiff like a turtle shell with a sandpaper-like finish. I think you just have to get lucky because I've seen some really stiff custom HOH in black leather with beefy inserts made of thick cuts of leather that I'd take over some of the USA stuff. Custom Wilson A2000s in Orange Tan leather with saddle tan laces ordered "pro stiff" are consistently very stiff but don't have that "dry" feeling that many are looking for.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
I don't think either of my custom NP6's are what I'd consider stiff! My dry black NP6 was built with the standard break-in, and my Tan Jtan NP6 was built with the firm break-in, they both seem exactly the same to me. Are they Small Batch No. 26 stiff? Heck NO, not even in the same ballpark!!
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
I know it's been said here many times before, it's time for Rawlings to start at least putting Black and Tan dry Horween on the builder! A Horween NP6 in either color would make me smile! :D
 

NYC

Swag on 100.
I know it's been said here many times before, it's time for Rawlings to start at least putting Black and Tan dry Horween on the builder! A Horween NP6 in either color would make me smile! :D
But again, even from the recent horween releases from the past 5 years or so you can tell that some of them are extremely nice and some of them are crappy, even if it is horween. I hear that catcher's and 1B gloves are made from thicker leather, it would be cool to request that type of leather for fielder's gloves which is what I think happened with some of the early don morton releases which were tanks.
 

beeblebobble

Starting Player
I know it's been said here many times before, it's time for Rawlings to start at least putting Black and Tan dry Horween on the builder! A Horween NP6 in either color would make me smile! :D
Or at least some kind of honest response why not. A few teenagers cry and we can get a glove in mint! WTF man if they can do that crap they can give us horween. The people who want horween gloves have the most money to spend on gloves and usually buy more than 1 glove.
 

84bbchamps67

Addicted to Softballfans
But again, even from the recent horween releases from the past 5 years or so you can tell that some of them are extremely nice and some of them are crappy, even if it is horween. I hear that catcher's and 1B gloves are made from thicker leather, it would be cool to request that type of leather for fielder's gloves which is what I think happened with some of the early don morton releases which were tanks.
Agreed NYC...
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
But again, even from the recent horween releases from the past 5 years or so you can tell that some of them are extremely nice and some of them are crappy, even if it is horween. I hear that catcher's and 1B gloves are made from thicker leather, it would be cool to request that type of leather for fielder's gloves which is what I think happened with some of the early don morton releases which were tanks.
I’ve got to say, other than laces always sucking (I know, I’ve got a problem), I’ve been perfectly fine / happy with every Horween I’ve ever owned.....DM, SBF exclusive, and my NP5 Spring Trainer!

My newest Horween 504 just reminded me again of what a real glove is!
 

Rous

Addicted to Softballfans
It has to be some combination of cost and sales. I wouldn't be surprised if a Horween 1/2 hide costs $50-$75 more than the J-tanned leather they use. That would work out to $10-$15 per glove. Since I am guessing the Rawlings production cost for a custom glove is about $100, that's a 10%-15% increase in cost. While we'd all be willing to pay it, I doubt they think that way. But I am surprised they don't make it a PP option.
 

davisrelacing

The Other Guy
Some points to ponder:
>??> As most of you know, a fielding glove is sewn together inside out, then inverted before inserting the liner. Maybe since Horween tan is so stiff, the factory must skive the glove pieces thinner to make the glove pliable so it can be manufactured. This makes the Horween leather glove softer.

>??> Maybe gloves like catcher's mitts and first base mitts that don't need to be turned inside out after shell assembly don't need to be skived thinner, so they use more full thickness leather pieces in their construction, thus feeling "thicker" or "stiffer."

Also consider this:
Depending on the season in which a glove is produced also makes a difference in the stiffness of the glove. Gloves produced in winter (at least in more northern climes like China's Shanghai area, Japan's Nara prefecture, etc.) are stiffer than gloves made in summer. Moving production to warmer climes like Indonesia, Vietnam, or the Philippines has been a way for brands to reduce the chances of this happening.
 

JB_on_Baseball

New Member
So many good comments.

With the number of variables in the production process it’s no wonder that two gloves of the exact same model can feel very different.

I’m thinking now that ordering a custom is like Forest Gump’s box of chocolates – “you never know what you’re gonna get.”

I’ve ordered two customs over the past two years. The first came out perfect, but the second came with a sizeable bubble in the pocket, so I returned it.

Unless I need a pattern/size/web combination that’s just not available, I’m sticking with stock/off-the-shelf. But I’ll order three and keep the one that feels best.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
Unless I need a pattern/size/web combination that’s just not available, I’m sticking with stock/off-the-shelf. But I’ll order three and keep the one that feels best.

Customs aside, there’s just too many great exclusives out there to buy a stock off the shelf glove! Maybe I’m just a snob?

I’ve gone through several glove phases, right now the NP5 and NP6 are my favorites, a stock off the shelf NP6 is out of the question so that one’s off the table. My Horween NP5PRO came straight from Rawlings, it’s a Spring Trainer so even though it came from Rawlings.com it’s hardly a retail glove!

With Don Morton’s exclusives, Chad’s exclusives here, even the September RGGC here, you’ve got options on some higher end gloves that usually cost right at, or even less than stock / retail gloves!
 

JB_on_Baseball

New Member
Customs aside, there’s just too many great exclusives out there to buy a stock off the shelf glove! Maybe I’m just a snob?

With Don Morton’s exclusives, Chad’s exclusives here, even the September RGGC here, you’ve got options on some higher end gloves that usually cost right at, or even less than stock / retail gloves!

No question.

I'm good with buying an exclusive or pro issue from DM, Rawlings Outlet, etc. Those are great options. As long as I can put my hand into the finished product I’m going to own, rather than roll the dice ordering a custom that I hope will turn out the way I want it to.
 
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ANNASDAD

The Veteran
No question.

I'm good with buying an exclusive or pro issue from DM, Rawlings Outlet, etc. Those are great options. As long as I can put my hand into the finished product I’m going to own, rather than roll the dice ordering a custom that I hope will turn out the way I want it to.
Oh I get it! The last glove I tried on before I bought it was an ALL black 12.25” Pro1000 Spring Trainer from the Myrtle Beach outlet. Stupid here sold it before I ever caught one ball with it! :rolleyes:

I have thick medium sized hands, I usually have to work on and make gloves fit me, not too many give me that warm fuzzy feeling the first time I try them on, with the exception of the latest RGGC ProNP6. The very first time I put it on I had some pretty nasty thoughts, a ball glove isn’t supposed to feel that good! :D
 

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
Some points to ponder:
>??> As most of you know, a fielding glove is sewn together inside out, then inverted before inserting the liner. Maybe since Horween tan is so stiff, the factory must skive the glove pieces thinner to make the glove pliable so it can be manufactured. This makes the Horween leather glove softer.

>??> Maybe gloves like catcher's mitts and first base mitts that don't need to be turned inside out after shell assembly don't need to be skived thinner, so they use more full thickness leather pieces in their construction, thus feeling "thicker" or "stiffer."

Also consider this:
Depending on the season in which a glove is produced also makes a difference in the stiffness of the glove. Gloves produced in winter (at least in more northern climes like China's Shanghai area, Japan's Nara prefecture, etc.) are stiffer than gloves made in summer. Moving production to warmer climes like Indonesia, Vietnam, or the Philippines has been a way for brands to reduce the chances of this happening.


It's more to it than just the points you've made. Cattle just isn't raised the same way it was 50, 60 years ago. Just as not much free range cattle that's allowed to reach full maturity as there used to be. Free range cattle that's allowed to reach full maturity will produce thlcker, tougher hide. That's what code 55 Horween used to be produced from! Of course the leather back then had a lot more natural imperfections because of the natural way the cattle was raised. No pens or enclosed spaces. No special feed or food additives.

Nowadays, most people (even on this board!) want visual perfection. Gloves get sent back for a nick, a discoloration or for whatever like it's not going to be used outdoors in dirt, rocks, grass & sometimes rain to catch a projectile hurtling at you at 100mph. I never understood that.

Another issue is that now everybody primarily buys things on-line. When I was coming up, there was no, "On-line". You went into a sports shop, tried on different brands & models, then selected what you wanted, imperfections & all. You took it home & proceeded to work on breaking it in. No special solutions or methods. Just a lot of elbow grease & a lot of catch. Now the vast majority want pretty much game ready. (I'm not speaking of the die-hards on this board, of course!)

Something I've always wondered about is why none of the glove makers source leather from New Zealand which is pretty much free range? I guess that it's an expense thing.
 

davisrelacing

The Other Guy
It's more to it than just the points you've made.
Something I've always wondered about is why none of the glove makers source leather from New Zealand which is pretty much free range? I guess that it's an expense thing.

That's why I raised some points to ponder. Thinking about these gloves a different way.

On the flip side, you find a company like Juteru who produces leather ball gloves and other accoutrements from leather that shows scars, scratches, bites, etc. "Thank you animals" is their slogan.

From my understanding, Northern Europe produces the smoothest leather because of the lack of mosquitoes to cause bite marks and scars! The cold weather can also shrink the pores and condense the leather fibers.
 

etnstudios

Addicted to Softballfans
That's why I raised some points to ponder. Thinking about these gloves a different way.

On the flip side, you find a company like Juteru who produces leather ball gloves and other accoutrements from leather that shows scars, scratches, bites, etc. "Thank you animals" is their slogan.

From my understanding, Northern Europe produces the smoothest leather because of the lack of mosquitoes to cause bite marks and scars! The cold weather can also shrink the pores and condense the leather fibers.

1. Midges in Northern Europe are a ***** lol. No mosquitoes but these little things suck. i wonder if they don't affect cattle as much as people though

2. Where can i look at Juteru gloves?
 

Hiltz

Built for comfort
Nowadays, most people (even on this board!) want visual perfection. Gloves get sent back for a nick, a discoloration or for whatever like it's not going to be used outdoors in dirt, rocks, grass & sometimes rain to catch a projectile hurtling at you at 100mph. I never understood that.

Me neither, I'm at the other extreme.

I've always had a soft spot for Nokona gloves, especially their Walnut leather. I like how the leather has varied markings that make every glove look slightly different. And because they're handmade, you might end up with some uneven stitching, some fingertips being more square or rounded than others, etc. I don't consider these things flaws because they don't affect functionality, they're just evidence that the gloves are made by humans.


Something I've always wondered about is why none of the glove makers source leather from New Zealand which is pretty much free range? I guess that it's an expense thing.

Free range = insect bites, barb wire scars, etc.
 
Customs aside, there’s just too many great exclusives out there to buy a stock off the shelf glove! Maybe I’m just a snob?

I’ve gone through several glove phases, right now the NP5 and NP6 are my favorites, a stock off the shelf NP6 is out of the question so that one’s off the table. My Horween NP5PRO came straight from Rawlings, it’s a Spring Trainer so even though it came from Rawlings.com it’s hardly a retail glove!

With Don Morton’s exclusives, Chad’s exclusives here, even the September RGGC here, you’ve got options on some higher end gloves that usually cost right at, or even less than stock / retail gloves!

In terms of the Rawlings Customs, if you had to pick a leather from the current offerings. One from each HOH and PP, which would you personally say is the best quality? Now, that the beloved black Horween of the past has disappeared.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
In terms of the Rawlings Customs, if you had to pick a leather from the current offerings. One from each HOH and PP, which would you personally say is the best quality? Now, that the beloved black Horween of the past has disappeared.

For a HOH, Tan JTan, for a PP it’d be Rich Tan. But I’m a Tan glove guy! I’ve never owned a Golden Brown glove before, don’t know if it wears the same as Timberglaze?

As for Black leather, Rous here swears by the Oiled Black Horween, he said it’s tough and wears like iron, while others here said it gets floppy & soft too fast. I only have one Black custom, it’s dry Black, feels wonderful to the touch, and while it’s had very minimal use I feel it would get soft pretty quick with a lot of use. Beautiful leather though!
 

beeblebobble

Starting Player
For a HOH, Tan JTan, for a PP it’d be Rich Tan. But I’m a Tan glove guy! I’ve never owned a Golden Brown glove before, don’t know if it wears the same as Timberglaze?

As for Black leather, Rous here swears by the Oiled Black Horween, he said it’s tough and wears like iron, while others here said it gets floppy & soft too fast. I only have one Black custom, it’s dry Black, feels wonderful to the touch, and while it’s had very minimal use I feel it would get soft pretty quick with a lot of use. Beautiful leather though!
Black Jtan is the only black option now. No more oiled black. And Golden Brown is a jtan leather, only timber and sandlot are left of the pull up leathers.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
Black Jtan is the only black option now. No more oiled black. And Golden Brown is a jtan leather, only timber and sandlot are left of the pull up leathers.
Yeah, I knew the oiled Black was gone. So with GB being Jtan and TG being a pull up, which would you say is the tougher, longer wearing leather between the two?
 

beeblebobble

Starting Player
Yeah, I knew the oiled Black was gone. So with GB being Jtan and TG being a pull up, which would you say is the tougher, longer wearing leather between the two?
lol I've mentioned my disdain for Jtan leather often and I've never much liked the pull up leathers as well. My gloves are horween or rich tan kip, so I'm not really sure which would be more durable between gb and tg, and I doubt with general use one leather is really going to outlast another leather for a recognizable amount of time. Especially when so many factors go into how long a glove will last for each individual.

If polo isn't sure what he wants I have to agree with you and say just get tan. I'd say feel a Timberglaze glove before you get a custom in it if possible.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
I'd say feel a Timberglaze glove before you get a custom in it if possible.

I agree, I’ve only ever owned one Timber glove, the NP7 that was sold here. I ended up sending it to Committed, I still think it may be the best looking glove I’ve ever owned but TG just wasn’t for me!

Just got another Horween 504 to replace the one I had previously sold. I have just two non-Horween’s now, both of my custom Jtan NP6’s which is my favorite glove, size, and pattern! It’s pretty amazing comparing this Horween 504 to both of my NP6’s, almost like comparing an adult glove to a couple of kids glove.....if that makes sense?

When Chad finally makes me my Horween NP6, I’m selling everything else! ;):D
 
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