Rule change, must toe the rubber.

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
It was announced yesterday at the USSSA convention in Orlando that for the 2023 season, pitcher's must toe the rubber in all divisions. I don't know if this will be extended to Seniors or not, but all adult classifications will have to toe the rubber. No evidence given that it actually reduced injuries, was very hard to officiate and anecdotally caused the ball to come in faster so it went out faster.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
"No evidence given that it actually reduced injuries". That's why the conference infielders play in the outfield, right?

Hard to officiate, does this mean their dumbass strike zone is going to be adjusted too then?

Comes in faster, goes out faster. Yeah, I figured there'd be a crappy half measure since their equipment is still too hot, but I'd have never guessed this. Kudos to being so illogical and off the mark that you caught me off guard. I didn't think you still had it in you utrip.

Only thing crazier would be to reinstate 220s to the conference.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
I'm also hearing they are taking out the line in the rulebook about a fielder being protected from obstruction if they are "in a proper position to field a thrown ball, ball must already be in flight." Good riddance to that, I was sick of guys arguing they could block the plate or base because the ball had left the hand of an outfielder.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I'm also hearing they are taking out the line in the rulebook about a fielder being protected from obstruction if they are "in a proper position to field a thrown ball, ball must already be in flight." Good riddance to that, I was sick of guys arguing they could block the plate or base because the ball had left the hand of an outfielder.

Any fielder who purposely blocks the plate (or base) and initiates contact with a baserunner deserves to be mowed down.
 

ImminentDanger

Up and Over
It was announced yesterday at the USSSA convention in Orlando that for the 2023 season, pitcher's must toe the rubber in all divisions.
The pitcher's box was a positive rule in the game for pitcher safety. What proof did they expect?

Faster In = Faster Out - Then change the height limit to 12 or 14 feet...

It's simply another anti-pitcher/pro-batter change - As though we need more of that!

%%%
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
The comment on the floor was that if people really felt that strongly that pitching six feet back made a difference in pitcher safety then let's move the rubber back to 56'. Surprisingly that went nowhere. Both changes bring USSSA back into alignment with USA Softball and I believe SPN in Canada. The lower pitchers that I talked with at Challenge Cup didn't seem to have a problem with it, and it will solve a lot of problems with enforcement. As if I'm not watching enough during each pitch, I'm supposed to be worried about whether the pivot foot is 5'11" or 6'1" behind the front edge of the rubber.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
The comment on the floor was that if people really felt that strongly that pitching six feet back made a difference in pitcher safety then let's move the rubber back to 56'. Surprisingly that went nowhere. Both changes bring USSSA back into alignment with USA Softball and I believe SPN in Canada. The lower pitchers that I talked with at Challenge Cup didn't seem to have a problem with it, and it will solve a lot of problems with enforcement. As if I'm not watching enough during each pitch, I'm supposed to be worried about whether the pivot foot is 5'11" or 6'1" behind the front edge of the rubber.
I'm all for making your job easier, as that benefits every player.

I just know that I couldn't be in this room when this goes on. Just because people do things, or want things, doesn't mean the governing body should implement them.

The fact that the argument was move the rubber back to 56' just shows how out of touch with the conversation and the subject matter they are. It's not about being six feet farther back, it's about being able to vary the pitches to lessen how much the batter kills it! We're throwing it underhanded for **** sake.

If I pitch with my back foot on the front of the rubber, then with my front foot on the back of the rubber, I've varied my release distance from three to four feet. Allowing the box just gave me way more options!

ID is right, if they want to slow down pitch speed get rid of the flat crap. If you're going to allow that, then don't fix your mouth to say faster in faster out like you're doing it for me.

You know I don't mean you personally btw. I've always appreciated your opinion on most things.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
They need a compromise. Pitcher safety would be no classic ms, classic plus only below c, 8-12' arc to a mat that is one inch wider than the plate, the plate is a strike, and bats are 265 compression.

That's not feasible for an overnight rule change, excluding 2020 when I told you that they could change everything due to COVID. We'd have played with nerf balls and wooden bats that fall just to get back out there.

A good compromise imo would be getting rid of classic ms entirely, emphasizing calling the corners more aggressively on the strike zone, moving the strike zone back to back shoulder instead of highest shoulder whatever that even means, dropping the excessive speed call and just calling those balls flat if you want to call it, raising gsl to 6-10, and look to raising all to 12 the following year.

Do ALL of this before phasing out 220s and I doubt you hear too much complaining. Definitely have to get rid of the classic m before that imo. Perception is reality for 90% of softball, and they'll not get so fired up about a change as long as you don't do too much at once.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
It was announced yesterday at the USSSA convention in Orlando that for the 2023 season, pitcher's must toe the rubber in all divisions. I don't know if this will be extended to Seniors or not, but all adult classifications will have to toe the rubber. No evidence given that it actually reduced injuries, was very hard to officiate and anecdotally caused the ball to come in faster so it went out faster.
They haven't ruled on bats though, right? Or are they still meeting?
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
They haven't ruled on bats though, right? Or are they still meeting?
I'm starting a new thread with all of the rule changes that have been announced. The Conference rule changes I know of will interest you greatly, but I won't post them until they are announced somewhere.
 

ImminentDanger

Up and Over
A good compromise imo would be getting rid of classic ms entirely, emphasizing calling the corners more aggressively on the strike zone, moving the strike zone back to back shoulder instead of highest shoulder whatever that even means, dropping the excessive speed call and just calling those balls flat if you want to call it, raising gsl to 6-10, and look to raising all to 12 the following year.
If only you were commissioner --- the game would be much more balanced between offense and defense.

No one wants to be truly competitive in the game - certainly not at the plate - they just want to win (at all costs)...

%%%
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
They need a compromise. Pitcher safety would be no classic ms, classic plus only below c, 8-12' arc to a mat that is one inch wider than the plate, the plate is a strike, and bats are 265 compression.

That's not feasible for an overnight rule change, excluding 2020 when I told you that they could change everything due to COVID. We'd have played with nerf balls and wooden bats that fall just to get back out there.

A good compromise imo would be getting rid of classic ms entirely, emphasizing calling the corners more aggressively on the strike zone, moving the strike zone back to back shoulder instead of highest shoulder whatever that even means, dropping the excessive speed call and just calling those balls flat if you want to call it, raising gsl to 6-10, and look to raising all to 12 the following year.

Do ALL of this before phasing out 220s and I doubt you hear too much complaining. Definitely have to get rid of the classic m before that imo. Perception is reality for 90% of softball, and they'll not get so fired up about a change as long as you don't do too much at once.

C+ should be the ONLY ball USSSA uses except when playing on full size baseball fields. Save the stadium balls for that. Get rid of classic M and Pro M entirely.

C+ and 240 bats would be a good game, and the bats might last more than 100 swings before failing compression.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
C+ should be the ONLY ball USSSA uses except when playing on full size baseball fields. Save the stadium balls for that. Get rid of classic M and Pro M entirely.

C+ and 240 bats would be a good game, and the bats might last more than 100 swings before failing compression.
100%
 

ilyk2win

Addicted to Softballfans
C+ should be the ONLY ball USSSA uses except when playing on full size baseball fields. Save the stadium balls for that. Get rid of classic M and Pro M entirely.

C+ and 240 bats would be a good game, and the bats might last more than 100 swings before failing compression.
IMO this would open the door for USA/ASA to take too much of the market share. Monsta's with 52's >>> any USSSA bat with C+ -- esp below the Conference level. Most if not all USA/ASA 52's are better than the C+'s from what I've experienced. Granted most of my C+ ball experience was from years ago so maybe their 52 ball has improved, as it was ok with 240 bats this year at the Band Aid, but Monsta's still hit it notably better IMO.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
IMO this would open the door for USA/ASA to take too much of the market share. Monsta's with 52's >>> any USSSA bat with C+ -- esp below the Conference level. Most if not all USA/ASA 52's are better than the C+'s from what I've experienced. Granted most of my C+ ball experience was from years ago so maybe their 52 ball has improved, as it was ok with 240 bats this year at the Band Aid, but Monsta's still hit it notably better IMO.
Exactly why they should've done it two years ago. I wouldn't normally agree with you, but if they do it right after banning all these bats you would probably be right.

They could always just come up with a 48/325 or something. They need a lower cor option to bust more bats for increased sales though. I mean, for safety.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
IMO this would open the door for USA/ASA to take too much of the market share. Monsta's with 52's >>> any USSSA bat with C+ -- esp below the Conference level. Most if not all USA/ASA 52's are better than the C+'s from what I've experienced. Granted most of my C+ ball experience was from years ago so maybe their 52 ball has improved, as it was ok with 240 bats this year at the Band Aid, but Monsta's still hit it notably better IMO.

I played in the Band Aid this year (and have for several others). The balls they used for it (Demarini C+) are by no means great, but that tourny is also played at like 6000 ft. Every ball flies like a missile at that park (Skyview).

IMO the Band Aid balls were fine. I had zero trouble hitting HRs (Between 40+ and varsity B I hit 19). I wouldn't call the balls ridiculously jumpy, but anyone who hits HRs was mashing them out.

I won't really say ASA .52s are better. I think manufacturers use the same .52 core for ASA and USSSA balls. They simply have different stitch colors and stamps.

I don't have much experience with Monstas, but I feel like any decent USSSA bat (even 240s) hit C+s just fine.

I do agree with the point that USSSA uses a different ball specifically to be unlike ASA. Many people I know are put off by .52 balls, and I don't know why. I feel like they perform as well or better than Pro M's or classic M's, especially in very hot weather.

I don't feel like USSSA covered any new ground by introducing the Pro M. The ball is unimpressive, and I would have been fine sticking with C+.
 
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