So this happened today. What's the correct call?

defos

Well-Known Member
ASA/USA - Bases loaded, no outs. Ground ball hit to the 3rd baseman right next to the bag. Runner on 3rd did not move and remained on the base. 3rd baseman tagged the runner who was standing on 3rd, stepped on 3rd base to get the force out on the runner coming from 2nd, and threw to 2nd to get the force there. What's the correct call?
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
agree. quadruple play for 3rd base runner taking a nap. and possibly kick him out of the team.. lol
 

ilyk2win

Addicted to Softballfans
Triple play if done as stated. If 3B stepped on 3B before tagging the runner standing on 3B, then a double play only with runners at 1st and 3rd for the next batter.
 

trippy1313

Starting Player
Triple play if done as stated. If 3B stepped on 3B before tagging the runner standing on 3B, then a double play only with runners at 1st and 3rd for the next batter.
It's funny but beautiful how just those steps getting flipped totally changes the outcome. I love baseball/softball.
 

defos

Well-Known Member
If you think this is a triple play, please explain how a runner can be tagged out while in contact with a base he is rightfully occupying at the time he is tagged.
Yes, there is a force play in effect, but exactly when and why is he no longer protected on the base he occupied when the ball was pitched?
 

ilyk2win

Addicted to Softballfans
Once the ball is put into play, he/she is no longer entitled to that base as they are "forced" to advance, which in legal order would be towards home. If the 3B bag was touched first, the force is then nullified and the runner is once again entitled to the 3B bag OR to advance towards home at his/her own risk with liability to be tagged out. In your OP, you stated the runner was tagged first, before reaching home plate, thus out. There is still a force at every other bag, so the order of operation matters most in regards to keeping the force on at each base. Triple play as stated. Sorry for your loss.
 

defos

Well-Known Member
So if the runner is no longer entitled to the base once the ball is put in play, if he's hit by the batted ball while still on the base, is he out?

I haven't said how the umpire ruled, or which team I was on. I actually play for both teams on different days which is why I posted this question. One team thinks the ump was right, and the other thinks he was wrong.
 

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
As described, this is a triple play.

Don’t mix in different rules about runners being hit by batted balls. That’s a different circumstance, different rule, and different application.
 
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defos

Well-Known Member
Just trying to understand how the runner can be protected by being on the base in one case and not the other.
 

jameybaxter

Yeah, I'm A Weirdo
Just trying to understand how the runner can be protected by being on the base in one case and not the other.
In Baseball you would be out for being hit, in slowpitch softball, that is not the case. It is a safety issue because we do not allow leading off and runner must remain in contact until contact with the ball is made by batter.
You are not allowed to intentionally interfere with a batted ball. Like poster above said - different rule and situation.
In any case, once a player is forced forward and is in jeopardy of a force out, it matters not where along their path you tag them before they make it safely to their base, starting with the bag they are currently occupying, as that is no longer theirs to occupy.
 

eddieq

The Great and Powerful Q
Assuming you're not being argumentative for the sake of arguing (not that slowpitch players will argue for the sake of arguing)...

Speaking of USA Softball rules since it was mentioned in the OP - the definition of a "force out" specifies
An out which may be made only when a runner loses the right to the base that the runner is occupying because the batter becomes a batter-runner, and before the batter-runner or a trailing runner has been put out.

So in the case of why they are out if they are in contact with that base and tagged - they don't have the right to that base and are forced to go to the next one. It's as if the base wasn't there as far as that runner is concerned. It doesn't exist as a safe haven for the runner since they are forced to advance. This is why they would be safe if the fielder had tagged the base first - it puts out the runner that is forcing them to advance and removes the force allowing them to stay there safely.

USA Rule 8.7.K says The runner is out ...
When a runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before it passes an infielder, excluding the pitcher, or if it passes an infielder and another fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

Note is says "not in contact with a base" and not "not in contact with the base to which they are entitled". For the purpose of argument, the runner could be in contact with any base - even standing next to another runner who has the right to that base and not be out because of the batted ball hitting them (hypothetical situation and I'm sure that will cause pages of thread where people will argue that they saw it happen and the umpire called him out and another where they didn't see it happen but an insect appeared on the field and the umpire declared an infield fly).

That's a lot of words to answer your "why" - but the short answer is "thems the rules".
 
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