ASA Thrown ball hit fielders detaches helmet

[JackoDaddy5]

R1 on 3b, R2 on 1st. Nobody out.


Batter hits a line drive to left center that drops in for a base hit. Middle infielder (intentionally) tosses off his helmet and goes out for the cut. Ball is thrown to him, he turns and throws toward 2nd base. His throw comes up short, and the ball hits the helmet that he previously took off.


What’s the ruling?

I thought dead ball, 2 bases from the time of the throw. Anybody have the detached equipment rule link or case play number for clarification ?

 

[r8dr_rider]

I think it would be the same as if an overthrown ball hits equipment near the dugout ie bats or bags.

 

[Hagen49]

I would contend this as a live ball, as the fielders throw hit a piece of the defenses equipment. Had the infielder kept his equipment on, the throw would have continued on to its original target. Since the helmet was hit, I'm sure the ball bounced off in an unintended and unpredictable direction, leading to an issue for the team who created the issue.

 

[MaverickAH]

R1 on 3b, R2 on 1st. Nobody out.


Batter hits a line drive to left center that drops in for a base hit. Middle infielder (intentionally) tosses off his helmet and goes out for the cut. Ball is thrown to him, he turns and throws toward 2nd base. His throw comes up short, and the ball hits the helmet that he previously took off.


What’s the ruling?

I thought dead ball, 2 bases from the time of the throw. Anybody have the detached equipment rule link or case play number for clarification ?

You thought wrong. There is no ruling in this case.

Any detached equipment that's part of the normal course of play (think bat, catcher's helmet, fielder's mask or glove) & is now laying on the field becomes part of the field. The ball remains live.

The only reason for ruling a dead ball is if that detached equipment was purposely used to affect the path of the ball or if a runner's helmet become detached. The only exception is that a catcher can use their detached mask to corral a ball.

 

[AH23]

You thought wrong. There is no ruling in this case.

Any detached equipment that's part of the normal course of play (think bat, catcher's helmet, fielder's mask or glove) & is now laying on the field becomes part of the field. The ball remains live.

The only reason for ruling a dead ball is if that detached equipment was purposely used to affect the path of the ball or if a runner's helmet become detached. The only exception is that a catcher can use their detached mask to corral a ball.

No, he's correct. "When the loose equipment belongs to the team in the field, it becomes a blocked ball and the overthrow rule applies."

So, two bases from the time of the throw. That's from the Rule Supplement 17. It's Rule 8.5.G or F in there somewhere

 

[MaverickAH]

No. That rule does not apply. You are forgetting the, "...….other than legally being used in the game at the time.....", part of that rule. Once you include that, the helmet or mask becomes legal & part of the field. Live ball!

 

[AH23]

I was surprised when I read that this morning. And now that I re-read it, Maverick you are correct.

 

[Country469]

I've had this happen with a pitching helmet before, the call is "sorry bout your luck defense"

 

[NCASAUmp]

No call, play on. There has to be intent for us to rule anything else.

 

[JackoDaddy5]

So piggy backing off of this, day the thrown ball contacts the defensive teams bats that are hanging outside of their dugout (where they are not supposed to be) vs, offensive dugout where they are not supposed to be. Any difference? I would assume so if the batting team is the team who commits the offense.
But these are situations where equipment wasn’t used during the course of the play, correct?

 

[NCASAUmp]

If the equipment belongs to the defensive team, then it's treated exactly like an overthrow - dead ball, 2 bases from the time of the throw.

If the equipment belongs to the offensive team, then it's a dead ball, and all runners return to the bases last touched. If it interfered with the defense's ability to make a play, then the runner being played on is also called out.

That's why we keep telling you guys to get your stuff into the dugout. Leaving 15 bats out on the fence outside the dugout is nothing more than prick-waving. Put your sticks away, boys.

 

[JackoDaddy5]

Here is the rule that I had thought of, it says if it ‘inadvertently fallen off the defensive player’.

This was there my original question came into place. He for sure took it off on purpose, and tossed it away from him so he wouldn’t step on it, and the ball ended up finding it later on the play.

Feel free NCASA to tell me it stays the same, but I thought that if it was taken off on purpose, it made a difference.

 

[NCASAUmp]

See rule 8-5-F, and note the fourth word in the rule.

 

[JackoDaddy5]

I’m the worst, I can’t find it. I’m going to assume it just means you were right the first time, as per usual thanks a bunch