USSSA Thrown ball hits bat...

[crgger303]

This weekend in USSSA league game. Runner on 2nd 0 outs (doesn't matter just setting it up). Batter hits to right center. Runner from second tries to score on the hit. Play at the plate, ball short hops the catcher and goes under his glove and hits the bat (from the batter) laying in the right handed batters box. Runner touches home and batter advances to second on the throw. Umpire calls "farthest" runner out because ball hit the bat and run does not score... Never heard this rule. If it is a rule who's responsibility is it to move the bat? Again, bat was in the batters box Not in fair territory.. we were thrown off by it. Umpire says "its in the rule book, we got hit with the same rule at Nationals"... Guy i play with (whom is an umpire in the league) says its not in the rule book... Any one help with this?

 

[Joker]

www.usssa.com has the rule book for you to look it up

 

[rhound50]

The is a rule that the umpire called does exist, the problem is his interpenetration is wrong. If the ball hits equipment that is left in the field of play the closest runner to home plate is out and the ball is dead. What he messed up is the bat that is used by the batter is an exception to the rule. The rule is intended for equipment not being used but is left in the field of play.

www.usssa.com has the rule book for you to look it up

Yeah what an idiot, this guy comes to the umpires section to ask help on a rule.

 

[crgger303]

Gotcha thanks

 

[Joker]

The is a rule that the umpire called does exist, the problem is his interpenetration is wrong. If the ball hits equipment that is left in the field of play the closest runner to home plate is out and the ball is dead. What he messed up is the bat that is used by the batter is an exception to the rule. The rule is intended for equipment not being used but is left in the field of play.



Yeah what an idiot, this guy comes to the umpires section to ask help on a rule.

got a source for that?

 

[rhound50]

got a source for that?

www.usssa.com

 

[Joker]

ok, so you don't. thanks for your help

 

[rhound50]

ok, so you don't. thanks for your help

Use the search function noob, there answers are easy to find.

http://forums.softballfans.com/showthread.php?t=1359775&highlight=ball+hits+bat

 

[Joker]

so like the guy says its not in the rule book thats on www.usssa.com

 

[crgger303]

This is why i asked here because the rule book states: "BLOCKED BALL is a batted or thrown ball that is touched,stopped or handled by a spectator or person not engaged in the game, or that touches any object which is not part of the legal official
equipment, or which hits or goes beyond a designated out-of-play area." and the bat in this case does not fit description of a "blocked ball"

 

[rhound50]

This is why i asked here because the rule book states: "BLOCKED BALL is a batted or thrown ball that is touched,stopped or handled by a spectator or person not engaged in the game, or that touches any object which is not part of the legal official
equipment, or which hits or goes beyond a designated out-of-play area." and the bat in this case does not fit description of a "blocked ball"

Don't mind joker, acting "cool" from his mom's basement is his purpose for living.

 

[crgger303]

Don't mind joker, acting "cool" from his mom's basement is his purpose for living.

Oh I could care less. Not the first internet tough guy I've seen and won't be the last. Just wondering when an Admin is going to enforce the trolling policy in the forum rules. Pretty sure they've have enough evidence against him. But he needs these forums or else he wouldn't have much going on with his life. Oh well...

I just really wanted clarification because the ump said it was in the rule book and couldn't find anything for either side of the argument. At least not in the "dead ball" portion on it...

 

[jbo911]

How is telling you where the rule book is trolling exactly? He is being obtuse and annoying, but not everyone that posts here has to agree with you. Stating the truth in an annoying way isn't trolling according to any definition of trolling I've ever seen.

 

[Joker]

all i know is that if i'm looking for information on a rule, the first place i'm going to look is the rule book. not everyone know that usssa posts it for free on their website, but then again a lot of lazy people just like to ask a question without doing any of their own research first

 

[crgger303]

We'll I'm not an umpire but i already looked through the rule book before posting and couldn't find anything besides the "blocked ball" rule. which did not fit the situation. My friend (an umpire) said its not in the book and the ump for the game said it was. We took the ruling as he enforced it, lost the run and took the out. I was just looking for clarification if there is something i missed, if there was some verbiage i am unfamiliar with regarding the rule.

 

[Joker]

the blocked ball rule covers this situation as far as what the rule book says

 

[crgger303]

2 things. Blocked ball states: any object which is not part of the legal official equipment. but the rules just say offending teams equipment... so that's confusing... and 2 by that rule IF the bat is capable of causing a blocked ball, shouldn't you just always throw home towards a bat lying there and if it hits it the most advanced runner would be out. Now that would be a MAJOR Dbag move but wouldn't put it past some teams where i play...

 

[rhound50]

2 things. Blocked ball states: any object which is not part of the legal official equipment. but the rules just say offending teams equipment... so that's confusing... and 2 by that rule IF the bat is capable of causing a blocked ball, shouldn't you just always throw home towards a bat lying there and if it hits it the most advanced runner would be out. Now that would be a MAJOR Dbag move but wouldn't put it past some teams where i play...

Read the other link I posted with actual umpires discussing the play. The people who actually know the rules agreed that the bat used by the hitter is considered part of play.

How is telling you where the rule book is trolling exactly? He is being obtuse and annoying, but not everyone that posts here has to agree with you. Stating the truth in an annoying way isn't trolling according to any definition of trolling I've ever seen.

Well this is an umpires forum with the idea that people should ask questions about rules, if all we do is send someone a link to the rule book whats the point of having an ask the umpire forum.

 

[Joker]

Use the search function noob, there answers are easy to find.

http://forums.softballfans.com/showthread.php?t=1359775&highlight=ball+hits+bat

Don't mind joker, acting "cool" from his mom's basement is his purpose for living.

Read the other link I posted with actual umpires discussing the play. The people who actually know the rules agreed that the bat used by the hitter is considered part of play.



Well this is an umpires forum with the idea that people should ask questions about rules, if all we do is send someone a link to the rule book whats the point of having an ask the umpire forum.

the better thing to do is to call people noobs and tell them to search

 

[Joker]

2 things. Blocked ball states: any object which is not part of the legal official equipment. but the rules just say offending teams equipment... so that's confusing... and 2 by that rule IF the bat is capable of causing a blocked ball, shouldn't you just always throw home towards a bat lying there and if it hits it the most advanced runner would be out. Now that would be a MAJOR Dbag move but wouldn't put it past some teams where i play...

yes, if the other team has a line up of bats outside the dugout you could throw the ball there and have it be called if you hit the bats

 

[BretMan]

Just one more example of a rule book with big enough holes to drive a Mac truck through...

Most spell this out clearly. USSSA doesn't. Nothing in their rule book directly defines "legal official equipment". Nothing in their case book covers this play. But if they call this a blocked ball, then they're the only organization I'm aware of that would.

There is a distinction between equipment not presently being used in actually playing the game (on-deck bats or warm-up devices, bats from the dugouts, etc.) and equipment which is (the bat that the batter just used to put the ball into play). Assuming that USSSA slow pitch rules are consistent with all other baseball and softball organizations, then the bat that the batter just used to hit the ball is "legal official equipment" and once it's dropped after use it becomes part of the playing field. If a subsequent thrown ball hits it, it's the same as hitting a dirt clod. Whatever happens happens and there is no penalty.

Maybe I'm making too big of an assumption to assume that USSSA is "consistent with everybody else"!

 

[crgger303]

Okay thanks guys. So basically it comes down to the ambiguous phrase, "legal official equipment" when referring to a blocked ball. Now with that being the case depending on the umpire this could come into play every once in a while and different umps could call this both ways? What would be proper recourse if it were to happen to us in the future if the ump goes by the "Blocked Ball" rule?

 

[EAJuggalo]

The proper recourse is to make it known to the umpire that you are protesting his interpretation of the blocked ball rule and note in the scorebook what the exact scenario is when the protest happens. Then follow up with your League Director in the manner prescribed under your league's bylaws.

My view, backed up by my local UIC and the State UIC is that you can not have a blocked ball caused by the batter's bat unless something else happened. If the on deck batter moved the bat, or if the catcher moved the bat you could then have a blocked ball, in the first case if in the umpire's judgement it prevented the defense from attempting to get an out then the runner nearest home would be called out and all other runners return to the last base occupied. In the second all runners would receive two bases from the time of the throw.