Tiebreaker question

[robokill]

My league has 3 teams (A,B,C) tied in the standings for the last playoff spot. First tie breaker is head to head, next is runs +/-.

Team A beat B 16-13, B beat C 13-12, and A and C didn't play each other. (EDIT: clarified that only 2 games total were played b/w the teams in question and added scores).

In terms of +/-:
A -14
B +6
C +11

So which team makes the playoffs?

 

[2TransAms]

Usually for head to head three way tiebreakers they all have to have played an even amount of games against each other.

I'd go with team C.

 

[MPT23]

I'm with 2TransAms. C team

 

[robokill]

Thanks for the input, C seems to be winning so far, anyone else?

 

[MaverickAH]

If head to head is the 1st tie breaker:

Team A: 1-0, 1.000
Team B: 1-1, 0.500
Team C: 0-1, 0.000

Team A gets my vote! If I were Team A & you jumped over head to head to go to run differential without me having played Team C, I wouldn't be happy!

 

[rpw019]

I think without a and c playing you have to go run diff. You dont have the data from head to head to use it. Part of the reason you have more than 1 tie breakers. C is my vote

 

[ojs43]

Head to head has to have balanced schedule to be used. If you can't use it, on to the next tie breaker. Pool play that doesn't have all teams play each other becomes problematic. I've played in tournaments with this type of format and undefeated teams don't move to the next round.

 

[MaverickAH]

The only real fair thing to do is to have a "play in" game between A & C.

• If A wins, they win the head to head at 2-0
• If C wins, all teams finish at 1-1 & C wins the run differential

 

[robokill]

If head to head is the 1st tie breaker:

Team A: 1-0, 1.000
Team B: 1-1, 0.500
Team C: 0-1, 0.000

Team A gets my vote! If I were Team A & you jumped over head to head to go to run differential without me having played Team C, I wouldn't be happy!

This was my thought as well, and it's logical that A should be better than C, given that they (A) beat B and B beat C (even though C probably is the best of the three). My team has to play the team that makes it of these three, and unfortunately the league went with C.

The only real fair thing to do is to have a "play in" game between A & C.

• If A wins, they win the head to head at 2-0
• If C wins, all teams finish at 1-1 & C wins the run differential

This would be ideal, but it's not gonna happen in the league in question.

 

[Sully]

My league has 3 teams (A,B,C) tied in the standings for the last playoff spot. First tie breaker is head to head, next is runs +/-.

Team A beat B 16-13, B beat C 13-12, and A and C didn't play each other. (EDIT: clarified that only 2 games total were played b/w the teams in question and added scores).

In terms of +/-:
A -14
B +6
C +11

So which team makes the playoffs?

C makes sense in some ways. Initially, I said A. They have zero losses in this trifecta. Also I'm guessing run differential involves team A losing badly one game and probably Team C running up the score on some scrub teams to get a better run differential. In games between the three, the run differential is A+3, B-2, and C-1 yet B obviously beat C.

A one game play in is the fairest option and wouldn't be that hard. Let it be decided on the field. Otherwise, because of piss poor scheduling either A or C is getting hosed and either would have a valid complaint. Most of the tie breakers I've seen that use run differential in three way ties are between those teams so running the score up on the worst team in the league doesn't make you the #1 seed. Otherwise, you are encouraging the better teams to keep running up the score on the ****ty teams to try to get run differential in games that aren't head to head.

If Team C ran up the score on the worst team in the league and beat them by 30, that run differential shouldn't matter. Does the OP play for Team C?

 

[robokill]

C makes sense in some ways. Initially, I said A. They have zero losses in this trifecta. Also I'm guessing run differential involves team A losing badly one game and probably Team C running up the score on some scrub teams to get a better run differential. In games between the three, the run differential is A+3, B-2, and C-1 yet B obviously beat C.

A got crushed by a decent team, and all of their wins were very close. C actually beat my team (who is the #1 seed with a .667 record) by 11 for their only big win, although we were missing our 2 best players so we were pretty much a scrub team I guess.

A one game play in is the fairest option and wouldn't be that hard. Let it be decided on the field. Otherwise, because of piss poor scheduling either A or C is getting hosed and either would have a valid complaint. Most of the tie breakers I've seen that use run differential in three way ties are between those teams so running the score up on the worst team in the league doesn't make you the #1 seed. Otherwise, you are encouraging the better teams to keep running up the score on the ****ty teams to try to get run differential in games that aren't head to head.

If Team C ran up the score on the worst team in the league and beat them by 30, that run differential shouldn't matter. Does the OP play for Team C?

You bring up a good point I didn't mention - team B didn't get to play the worst team in the league (the other two did), and they would have won by about 7 on average against that team (enough to put them first in run dif, and their equal overall record came against tougher competition), so they kind of have a legit gripe too.

My team has to play the team that makes it (we beat B by one, got crushed by C as I said before and lost to A by one by the way), and I would strongly prefer to play A, but we are scheduled to play C.

 

[Sully]

A got crushed by a decent team, and all of their wins were very close. C actually beat my team (who is the #1 seed with a .667 record) by 11 for their only big win, although we were missing our 2 best players so we were pretty much a scrub team I guess.


You bring up a good point I didn't mention - team B didn't get to play the worst team in the league (the other two did), and they would have won by about 7 on average against that team (enough to put them first in run dif, and their equal overall record came against tougher competition), so they kind of have a legit gripe too.

My team has to play the team that makes it (we beat B by one, got crushed by C as I said before and lost to A by one by the way), and I would strongly prefer to play A, but we are scheduled to play C.

I wasn't suggesting your team was a scrub team. In fact, I was thinking they got the run differential they did by beating the last place teams and then running up the score to get a better run differential .

I read this completely wrong. First, I assumed incorrectly that you were one of the three teams. It makes it more interesting you are asking about which team you should have to play. Is this the first round of the playoffs and only one of those three teams make it? I am also assuming since you were in first place, this is to decide which of the three teams gets to play #1, which should mean record wise they would be the worst team in the playoffs. Feel free to correct me as I've shown I suck at assumptions anyway. So you are going to have the play the team that beat you the worst (albeit without two of your best players)?

 

[robokill]

I wasn't suggesting your team was a scrub team. In fact, I was thinking they got the run differential they did by beating the last place teams and then running up the score to get a better run differential .

I read this completely wrong. First, I assumed incorrectly that you were one of the three teams. It makes it more interesting you are asking about which team you should have to play. Is this the first round of the playoffs and only one of those three teams make it? I am also assuming since you were in first place, this is to decide which of the three teams gets to play #1, which should mean record wise they would be the worst team in the playoffs. Feel free to correct me as I've shown I suck at assumptions anyway. So you are going to have the play the team that beat you the worst (albeit without two of your best players)?

No worries man, we definitely are a scrub team without our 2 best guys. You made some reasonable assumptions that happened to be wrong, a lot of weird results happened in this league (bad teams beating good ones etc.). 1st through 6th had almost even records (in an 8 team league).

Your second paragraph is 100% correct. And we just played the game (single elimination) and played C, the team that crushed us, and lost by 3. C or B "deserved" to make it imo, but by the letter of the rule I'm pretty sure we should have played A. I would have made a stink if I were A, but as the team that plays the "advancer" I figured it was worth it to cause trouble.

 

[sjury]

Without the playoff game, team C gets in.