USSSA Timing question (runner off bag)

[2TransAms]

Here's the situation: Top 8, runner on 1st, 1 out. Start with full count since it's extra innings. We're home team (fielding). Batter takes a big wind-up but checks his swing, and the ball drops in for strike three. He's out, but runner on first had jumped off the bag as the ball crossed the strike zone, presumably because the batter looked like he was going to swing. Ump calls batter out, then runner in that order.

Other team then argues that the runner should be out first for leaving the base early and the pitch doesn't count. Ump stood by his call though. But now that I think about it, they may have been right. Because if he'd hit the ball, we could have argued that the runner was out and the pitch didn't count. Am I right? Or not?

 

[JabNblue]

Here's the situation: Top 8, runner on 1st, 1 out. Start with full count since it's extra innings. We're home team (fielding). Batter takes a big wind-up but checks his swing, and the ball drops in for strike three. He's out, but runner on first had jumped off the bag as the ball crossed the strike zone, presumably because the batter looked like he was going to swing. Ump calls batter out, then runner in that order.

Other team then argues that the runner should be out first for leaving the base early and the pitch doesn't count. Ump stood by his call though. But now that I think about it, they may have been right. Because if he'd hit the ball, we could have argued that the runner was out and the pitch didn't count. Am I right? Or not?

I have to ask, one or two ump system? If one ump ( mind you I've never called games where count is full) that being the rule if I did see runner one leave early I still would probably call batter out then call runner making the sell that I seen it.

 

[MaverickAH]

"..............but runner on first had jumped off the bag as the ball crossed the strike zone..........."

Based on your description, it sounds like the ball reached home plate. The runner was legal & should not have been called out.

Now let's say that the runner did leave early before the pitch reached home plate. That should have resulted in an immediate dead ball & a declaration of no pitch.

In either case, the umpire was wrong. What's noteworthy is that his call was subject to protest since it was a misapplication of the rules.

Actual rule:

Rule 8, Sec.5.A

BASE RUNNERS ARE OUT under the following circumstances:
A. When a base runner fails to keep contact with the base to which he is entitled,
until a pitched ball touches the ground, has reached or passed home plate, or is batted.

 

[2TransAms]

Ok, so I looked that up, and it immediately says:
"EFFECT: No pitch is declared, the ball is dead, and the runner out."

So it seems the other team was right after all. The runner did get a jump slightly early, but just barely. Nobody questioned that.

I didn't have an opinion during the game, I haven't seen a runner leave early while the batter strikes out before!

 

[irishmafia]

Ok, so I looked that up, and it immediately says:
"EFFECT: No pitch is declared, the ball is dead, and the runner out."

So it seems the other team was right after all. The runner did get a jump slightly early, but just barely. Nobody questioned that.

I didn't have an opinion during the game, I haven't seen a runner leave early while the batter strikes out before!

No, the runner did not leave early since the ball reached the plate.

 

[2TransAms]

You'd be right, if he waited that long; he jumped on what would have been contact, except there was none, and then the ball hit the plate. It was a fraction of a second but still (barely) noticeably early. At any rate, nobody from either team argued whether he did or didn't leave early, just who was supposed to be out. Other team maintained (correctly, it turns out) it was just the runner; my team naturally insisted they were both out.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Either the pitch reached the plate and we have strike three, or the runner left PRIOR to the pitch reaching the plate. Only one of those two things happened.

If the runner left early, then the runner's out, and the pitch does not count. If he didn't leave early, we have strike three, and the batter's out. Sounds to me that we have strike three.

 

[2TransAms]

By all accounts, the runner left just baaarely before the ball landed. The other team didn't try to argue that he didn't leave early. I was in RC, I couldn't tell you if he did or didn't. So since both teams are on board with the fact that he left the bag, now I see he should've been the only out and count stays 3-2.

 

[NCASAUmp]

By all accounts, the runner left just baaarely before the ball landed. The other team didn't try to argue that he didn't leave early. I was in RC, I couldn't tell you if he did or didn't. So since both teams are on board with the fact that he left the bag, now I see he should've been the only out and count stays 3-2.

The rule has three exceptions to it - the ball's been batted, the ball has touched the ground, or the ball has reached the plate.

If it was a strike, it obviously cleared the plate. If the runner left "just baaarely before the ball landed," it's probable that the ball had already reached the plate.

 

[irishmafia]

The rule has three exceptions to it - the ball's been batted, the ball has touched the ground, or the ball has reached the plate.

If it was a strike, it obviously cleared the plate. If the runner left "just baaarely before the ball landed," it's probable that the ball had already reached the plate.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this.