Usssa PRO M Bad Batch?
- Thread starter Speedy07
- Start date
You will never convince me, that the manufacturers, or the associations, or both withing together don't mess us around with the balls.
Worth balls sucked for years, then their syco covered gold dots are the hardest balls in the game? 40 cors outperforming everything but stadiums. Then, they ditch the cover and don't go back to it when the pro comps are nowhere near as good?
"Test" pro ms get used at a few conference events, and they're described as golf balls. Utrip officials running down the hrs and threatening punishment for people stealing them, then we get the balls and just people say they're meh at best?
These things never add up. Asa changes balls and it takes the companies a few years to start making good ones. Some research, feedback, and then they get it. Notice, this is usually the pattern for bat changes too.
Utrip? They introduce new balls and they're rockets out the gate, then they suck later. It just doesn't make sense.
Worth balls sucked for years, then their syco covered gold dots are the hardest balls in the game? 40 cors outperforming everything but stadiums. Then, they ditch the cover and don't go back to it when the pro comps are nowhere near as good?
"Test" pro ms get used at a few conference events, and they're described as golf balls. Utrip officials running down the hrs and threatening punishment for people stealing them, then we get the balls and just people say they're meh at best?
These things never add up. Asa changes balls and it takes the companies a few years to start making good ones. Some research, feedback, and then they get it. Notice, this is usually the pattern for bat changes too.
Utrip? They introduce new balls and they're rockets out the gate, then they suck later. It just doesn't make sense.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Lots of speculation about "bad batches" of Dudley ZN Pro Ms over the last couple years.
I've hit enough of these balls (from probably a dozen different batches) to say that some batches are DEFINITELY worse than others. From what I've seen, DM, DV, and BN are the 3 worst batches. They're complete mush, and feel worse than classic Ms. The BN batch was used at a major tourny here in CO last year, and literally every team complained about the balls. They were nerf. The best batch is KH, which appeared in Viera right after the Pro M was first introduced in 2019. Even down in FL the KH balls were great.
All the other batches seem to fall somewhere in the middle.
Frankly, I think the Dudley Pro M is a POS. In the heat these balls are terrible, and even in a place like CO I saw guys have significant trouble hitting them hard or far. Demarini and AD Starr (Tattoo) both make better Pro Ms than Dudley.
There are DRAMATIC differences between batches of ZN Pro Ms. Depending on which ball you get, you could have a golf ball or a sock.
I've hit enough of these balls (from probably a dozen different batches) to say that some batches are DEFINITELY worse than others. From what I've seen, DM, DV, and BN are the 3 worst batches. They're complete mush, and feel worse than classic Ms. The BN batch was used at a major tourny here in CO last year, and literally every team complained about the balls. They were nerf. The best batch is KH, which appeared in Viera right after the Pro M was first introduced in 2019. Even down in FL the KH balls were great.
All the other batches seem to fall somewhere in the middle.
Frankly, I think the Dudley Pro M is a POS. In the heat these balls are terrible, and even in a place like CO I saw guys have significant trouble hitting them hard or far. Demarini and AD Starr (Tattoo) both make better Pro Ms than Dudley.
There are DRAMATIC differences between batches of ZN Pro Ms. Depending on which ball you get, you could have a golf ball or a sock.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Yeah, the first Pro Ms introduced were definitely good balls. I went to Viera for worlds in 2019, and the balls were sailing out all over the place. Nowadays when you go down there hardly anyone hits HRs.
I find tons of balls at Viera. Once the balls go in the lakes people there seem to stop caring about them.
We'll see what (probably bad) batch they'll have this year. I'll be down there in 2 weeks.
bigwignj
Addicted to Softballfans
GSL Ball, i forget if its a gold dot or ZN, there is definitely a huge difference in between the balls made in China and balls made in Vietnam. China balls are absolute socks. Vietnam balls fly like regular balls should. It ruined the world tournament. C's was originally bring your own ball. They had such a problem that after day 1 they announced you could no longer use the Vietnam balls and had to use the china balls to keep the playing field level. The next week for D's i think there was like 7 home runs hit all tournament, and some of the fields were 285. Yes, the balls were that bad. It was worse than playing in Florida. I think clinchers might have flown better. @ilyk2win could confirm this.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
GSL balls are Gold Dot Extremes. Every one of them I've seen have been freaking ROCK hard, the hardest balls I've ever seen.
I wasn't aware there was much difference between China and Vietnam balls. All the Hot Dots I've been seeing lately are from Vietnam, and I'm not impressed with them at all. They feel heavy, spongy, and dead.
China and Vietnam makes little to no difference to me. The syco cover is the biggest difference in my experience. The new ball, they didn't even change the model number which I also find shady, has a pro comp cover. That's what I was talking about before. Even above 80 degrees, the gsl gold dot feels like a rock. I'm playing leagues already near 60 degrees and the pro comp is not even in the same neighborhood.
Dudley used to be the best, and I agree they're bad now.
Dudley used to be the best, and I agree they're bad now.
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
The BN batch is what we had for Worlds last year and they were bad, not as bad as the DV that we used in Conference for most of this year were like. I've been told that a couple of teams went through the buckets at one tournament and took out all the DV batch before the finals. I've got friends down there now for Military Worlds that started today, I'll ask what they are using now, it will probably be the same batch for the rest of Worlds.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
I'll come back on here after worlds and let you know which batch is being used down there, and what I think of them.
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
Who are you playing with? Any concerns about the weather that is coming?
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
FRSTeam/Gen3 Roofing. I have no clue what the weather will be like.
Bobby Buggs
SBF Site Sponsor
I wouldn't expect to see many more Vietnam balls as most companies have left there due to a 20% increase in production cost. On to Cambodia for now but productivity there is about half.
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
EC is the batch being used at Worlds and it is night and day better than anything I used in Conference this year. I was talking to some of the Major players today between games, they lobbied for the new batch of Pro M's to be used at the World Series rather than the bad batch of Stadiums they are using. Final scores in a couple games yesterday were 6-5 and 4-3.
I don't understand how you mess up a stadium, but that's what they're saying in the stream too.
Then they go on to talk about how there are more defensive highlights, so maybe they'll keep them. I am enjoying the extra defense personally.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
I agree with this. Just got back from Viera. I saw EC and CH Pro Ms. Both looked the same, and both performed well. We played 2 games on red Easton, and the wind blew in steadily. Balls were still going out pretty regularly, some into the net. Definitely a better batch of Pro M than before. The covers are tighter, and the cores seem harder. Weather was nice, quite a bit cooler and less humid than usual. Also, they had the temp fences at 300' this year rather than the customary 325'. Lots of HRs were being hit.
IDK what was going on with the stadium balls, but anyone watching games in there could tell something was up. The ball wasn't flying at all. Many big hitters kept flying out to the fence on balls that looked like they are absolutely annihilated. Even guys like Kyle Pearson and Bubba Mack weren't hitting well. The wind blew as it always does in the stadium (in from LF going toward the RF line). Way, way fewer HRs than usual.
blakcherry329
Well-Known Member
I hear ya.
Personally, 30-25 games are really boring. I bet those 6-5 and 4-3 games were really exciting. just my opinion
It's a different game when you have to hit gaps instead of bombs away.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Championship game in the major was boring AF. I do understand your argument, but all these guys were going for HRs, and it was an endless parade of flyouts short of the fence.
Even some of the big power hitters looked pretty neutered by this ball. These guys do NOT go into this tourny looking to hit gaps and manufacture runs.
The onus here is on Dudley for creating an inconsistent product that falls well short of industry specs. Maybe it's time for USSSA to think about using a different ball manufacturer.
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
I didn't get to see much of the Major but did talk with the players, umpires and directors. Many people made the suggestion of using the Pro-M instead of the Stadium for Friday and Saturday. But the decision was made to go with the Stadium. Completely agree that they should look at another manufacturer after this debacle. No reason you should have C guys hitting the ball out of the stadium when the Major guys aren't.
blakcherry329
Well-Known Member
It's kinda like the shift argument. They're Pros.
Once you see that the ball isn't carrying, isn't it on the players to adjust? Especially in the Championship games.
I get that they're there to hit the long ball. Chicks dig that. lol
This is so spot on. It's also exactly why I'd like a slightly toned down ball. Maybe not as bad as this past ws, but still.
This major ws showed them all they need to see. The games, top to bottom, were mostly exciting although different. Iconic moments, resmondo losing on an almost robbed hr, ervine up to bat with the last swing in the championship, you don't get this stuff from blowout bomb shows.
You need consistency in the balls, so teams can know you're committed to this before they add a defensive guy or two, but then let's get it. Save the show bombs for the derby.
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
The problem as I understand it was that the balls were good on Wednesday, when they were on the old shipment. Then on Thursday on the new shipment they would have a lot that were bad and a few that were good. Obviously the ones that were good didn't last long. Had they started Thursday with the bad batch I don't think the complaining would have been as bad.
I watched the proton smash it game on YouTube, and it looked like more than just bad balls. They were hitting the ball sky high. Almost everything dying in the wt.
I don't know if this is scientifically accurate or not, but when we go from 40 cors to 52s the number of mi****s goes through the roof, and I've always assumed that the lower cor is the reason. It's like the other balls bounce off the bat when they're glanced, but the lower cors drive into the bat and it's not so obvious. That's what this looked like. Both pitchers had a no hitter through two innings, and I want to say it was a shut out until the fifth.
Look it up. It's crazy. Dudes would take what looked like their normal swings and it would go nowhere.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Having watched a few games at the major this year, I'll tell you right now it was the balls. They didn't even sound right coming off the bat. Stadium balls are usually really hard, but these ones sounded poofy. Nothing had any velocity, and the balls were dying well short of where they should have. The wind wasn't favorable for righties, but it never is in the stadium. Temps were also seasonably cool, so that wasn't a factor.
If you start the tourny with bad balls and everyone knows it, fine. Guys know what they're getting into and can adjust accordingly. However, if guys go into a tourny expecting to use hot balls and hit bombs, you'll see massive struggling and flyouts.
Having some good balls and some bad balls is even worse. You literally have no idea what to expect from one AB to the next.
Fact of the matter is, the ball for the major world series should be MUCH better than what was used out there this year. Even with a good ball it isn't very easy to hit HRs in that stadium. With a lousy ball it's practically impossible.
Admittedly, many of the big hitters did nothing to adjust their swing even after everyone could tell the ball wasn't going anywhere.
I'm old enough to remember when all leagues and tournies were like this. They'd mix last year's balls in with the new, and you had to be good at fouling off the turds if the guy before you hit a sock. It sucks not knowing what you're going to get until after the swing.
I saw someone describe it as if they'd accidentally put stadium covers on hot dots, and I think it was even worse than that. When they play asa they have no problem hitting those balls out, and especially to rf where the wind was blowing slightly out. I also didn't see any weird bounces on the turf.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Tournies used to be like that here. The USSSA director provided balls. You'd get 1 new ball to start the game, then whatever used balls after. You could end up hitting some severely beat up marshmallow.
Teams provide their own balls now. If you're hitting a bad one, it's your fault.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
IDK. The balls to me looked more like stadium covers on (bad batch) Pro M cores. These balls were just super dead.
.52s are underrated as far as distance. We were hitting BP on red Easton the night before worlds started. We had 1 Tattoo ASA .52 in the mix, and it kept outflying all the other balls we had out there. We also were hitting the orange/white Evil BPs, and they flew great. I hit one over the net to LF into the parking lot. Probably 375'. For FL that's a big shot.
I've hit .52s in FL before, and I feel like they outfly almost everything else.