Wendler 5/3/1 vs. Strong Lifts 5x5
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Hiltz
Built for comfort
Stronglifts is a blatant rip-off of Starting Strength. If you're new to barbell lifts, get a copy of Starting Strength. It has the most detailed instructions for the big lifts of any book available and I can't recommend it enough.
Anyway, Stronglifts and Starting Strength both use linear progression. You add weight every single workout and progress that way as long as you can. If you're new to heavy lifting, you can add literally hundreds of pounds to the main lifts in a short period of time. But you will work hard. If you are a more advanced lifter and already have relatively high numbers on your lifts, you will stall out on these programs in no time.
I'm running 5/3/1 now. It uses week-long cycles of different rep ranges. Week one you do sets of 5, week two it's sets of 3, and week three you do sets of 5, 3, and 1. Your last set of the day is for as many reps as possible (AMRAP) with good form. Week four is a scheduled deload week with light weights and no AMRAP set. Progression is slow because you only add weight when you complete a full cycle (four weeks, three if you skip the deload). The program allows for A LOT of customization. If you choose to go the 5/3/1 route, get the "Beyond 5/3/1" ebook. It explains the basic program structure and all the little tweaks/add-ons.
Anyway, Stronglifts and Starting Strength both use linear progression. You add weight every single workout and progress that way as long as you can. If you're new to heavy lifting, you can add literally hundreds of pounds to the main lifts in a short period of time. But you will work hard. If you are a more advanced lifter and already have relatively high numbers on your lifts, you will stall out on these programs in no time.
I'm running 5/3/1 now. It uses week-long cycles of different rep ranges. Week one you do sets of 5, week two it's sets of 3, and week three you do sets of 5, 3, and 1. Your last set of the day is for as many reps as possible (AMRAP) with good form. Week four is a scheduled deload week with light weights and no AMRAP set. Progression is slow because you only add weight when you complete a full cycle (four weeks, three if you skip the deload). The program allows for A LOT of customization. If you choose to go the 5/3/1 route, get the "Beyond 5/3/1" ebook. It explains the basic program structure and all the little tweaks/add-ons.
Hiltz
Built for comfort
Both of the programs you asked about are geared towards powerlifting, the right choice is gonna be determined by your current lifting ability. If you already have high lifts, you'll stall out on Stronglifts/Starting Strength quickly. But if you have a lot of room to grow and you choose 5/3/1, you'll be hampered by painfully slow progress. Do you squat/bench/deadlift regularly now? What kind of numbers are you putting up in those lifts?
wcoastsoftball
Moderator
I agree with him tap,
I love 5/3/1 but got bored with it quickly. I honestly don't have a recommendation at this time, but what are you doing now, one of Cresseys programs?
ilyk2win
Addicted to Softballfans
I did Strong Lifts for a while then plateaued, probably earlier than most would (I'm old and my knees are shot). It was nice loading a bar and doing 5 sets with the same weight.
I've been doing Mad Cow and like it.....and changing plates after every set makes it seem like it goes fast. On week 5 now, which is just the start of the tough phase IMO. I will say I've seen some physical changes in 4 weeks though.
I've been doing Mad Cow and like it.....and changing plates after every set makes it seem like it goes fast. On week 5 now, which is just the start of the tough phase IMO. I will say I've seen some physical changes in 4 weeks though.
I am on week 6 Its getting hard lol.I am 49 with crappy knees also. so I feel ya lol. I don't do the lite day, I feel I need more recovery instead
I agree with you on this.
A guy at Cressey has been writing my programs lately. Looks like I'll stick with that from what people are saying. Just was looking at some things and wanted to see if anyone had experiences with the programs I mentioned in the original post.
wcoastsoftball
Moderator
I would stick with that as well. An option though would be to read a Dan John book and try one of his "out of the norm" workouts. I am finishing up HPH this month and am going to try the 40 day workout then go back to Show and Go I think.
rshackleford
Rec League Superstar
I've done a bunch of different variations of Starting Strength over the last 2 winters. This year I'm doing 5/3/1 BBB and I like it a lot more. Progression is slower but I feel it's more sustainable and I haven't hurt myself yet. Also squatting 3x a week for 6 months is murder. SS and Stronglifts are pretty similar, but you'd probably add a bit more size on Stronglifts due to the extra volume. If you can already squat 300#, I'd probably suggest 5/3/1.
Fro Joe
Snowden is a hero.
Guess you like strength more than confused muscles.
Benched02
Addicted to Softballfans
I ran the 5x5 for 7 months. Then one day I dropped the weight and went for 10-12 reps. I was burned out in no time. So there for a while I was mixing it up each week doing either workout A or B with higher reps. I didn't do it long enough before I moved on to PH3 to notice any results though.
Confused muscles..... Great money making words!
I did the 5/3/1 until I couldn't progress further. I've been doing the candito 6 week cycle and it's been great for me. About 4 cycles into it and deadlift and bench have really been climbing even though I wasn't sure if there was enough deadlift volume. Also good gains on bench especially when using floor pressing, dumbbell incline flat, close grip bench, as my accessories. I really like the candito, not too much, not too little, and I feel u could continue it during the season.
Fro Joe
Snowden is a hero.
Have any of you done any Juggernaut programming? If so what did you think of it compared to other programs? I've been doing Cressey Programs, but I am looking to possibly do something geared more towards powerlifting. I don't play softball any longer so sports specific is really no longer needed.
AzAthlete008
Addicted to Softballfans
I've been running 5/3/1 for over a year now, and have been making great progress. You really have to read his books to understand what he is trying to help you accomplish. Even after the year I put in, Im still learning, there is just so much information he has in his books. Once you know what your goals are there is a template for you. But he states in his book the philosophy he uses.
1. Basic multi-joint lifts - bench press, squat, deadlift, and military press
2. Start Light - starting light allows you to progress forward
3. Progress slowly - helps you to stay on track, and not sabotage your progress
4. Break PR's - Break Rep Pr's throughout the year.
His percentages for reps and sets are derived from Prelpin's strength chart. And his goals are for athletes not only looking to get stronger, but bigger (hypertrophy), and stay mobile. He understands it takes years to get strong. No shortcuts, no nonsense. you get in get the work done and get out.
Im not sure if I can post a link, but t-nation is where you can find the basic gist of 5/3/1. He also answers questions almost daily on the topic, as he has his own forum on the site.
Hope this info helps some.
1. Basic multi-joint lifts - bench press, squat, deadlift, and military press
2. Start Light - starting light allows you to progress forward
3. Progress slowly - helps you to stay on track, and not sabotage your progress
4. Break PR's - Break Rep Pr's throughout the year.
His percentages for reps and sets are derived from Prelpin's strength chart. And his goals are for athletes not only looking to get stronger, but bigger (hypertrophy), and stay mobile. He understands it takes years to get strong. No shortcuts, no nonsense. you get in get the work done and get out.
Im not sure if I can post a link, but t-nation is where you can find the basic gist of 5/3/1. He also answers questions almost daily on the topic, as he has his own forum on the site.
Hope this info helps some.
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wcoastsoftball
Moderator
I cannot get away from his two workouts either. But am going to try some Dan John stuff here for a bit.
wcoastsoftball
Moderator
Think I am going to do his 40 day workout, modified to my schedule, but just something different for now. I had my C5-6 fused about 12 years ago and it is starting to flare up on me again, so am putting Cressey on hold for now.
wcoastsoftball
Moderator
Not that Cresseys stuff wouldn't be for a beginner, but I would start with something that teaches you the lifts in basic form. Cressey uses some variations that are not necessarily beginner level. You don't need supplements to lift, I would start on the diet first, then learning the lifts, then fill in the blanks with supps as needed.
wcoastsoftball
Moderator
Sorry, yes I was going to recommend that exact thing, but forgot. Thanks!
Youcallthemlogs
Extra Hitter
I play 5 days a week so will only be upping my weight 2 pounds each cycle of 5/3/1 in almost a maintenance level
Do you know the website?..