What would you do?

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
Bottom of the last inning, score is tied, 1 out, bases loaded. Batter gets a clean base hit to the outfield. Before any runner reaches the next base, plate umpire calls "ball game!". Defense yells that the runner from 3rd base never scored but umpire tells defense that the run counts. Defense then appeals that R1 never reached 2nd base and then appeals B/R never reached 1B. Umpire disallows both appeals and allows run to score. I know, the plate umpire is an idiot for calling ball game too soon. I don't need to hear that...but, how would you handle this situation?
 

Iceman6409

Active Member
The way I see this is there are two solutions. One. This is an obvious clear mistake by the umpire, whether it was deliberate or not. But it is fixable in this scenario. It sounds like the batting team CLEARLY won this game minus the untimely incorrect call. So fix it. Admit the mistake and do the right thing. We are not Major League umpires. The team on the field has the option to protest the call and they will most likely lose that protest. Two. Stand by your call. The batting team has the option to protest the game and they should win that protest. However as always nothing is guaranteed.
 

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
a) Bad mechanics by the umpire. You should never announce, "Game over!", & especially when all runners haven't completed their minimum requirements.
b) If the umpire hasn't left the field of play, the game isn't really over & protests are allowed.
c) The runners did not complete their assignments because of the instruction of the umpire.
d) In this case, because of the pronouncement of the umpire, you let the play stand, record any protest & take the consequences of your error.
 
This umpire didn't use poor mechanics, he used very poor judgment. He sounds like the type of umpire that is only calling games for the money. We have all seen similar umps.......every close call is an out, trying to speed the game up, etc. His sole responsibility in this scenario is to allow the play to continue BEFORE he makes any call. Ten more seconds to see if runner reaches home before two outs could be completed on the team at bat and there is no controversy.

Not seeing the position of the outfielders, chances were with only 1 out and bases full they were all playing very shallow, could have thrown out runner at plate? or runner at third for 2nd out and on to second for final out? Defensive team has every right to complain.

The UIC or director of the league should have a private conversation with this umpire to give him an opportunity to explain why he made the game ending call. Listen, discuss the timing of the plays as well as his premature call and show him the error in judgment. If he is a good umpire in general, not combative with the players and simply made a bad mistake in judgment, retain him in the pool of umpires. If he is found to be non-receptive to council and is border line effective in his abilities and attitude, i would look for a replacement. Players and leagues pay their dues for field usage and good umpires.
 

blakcherry329

Well-Known Member
It is! Does this pose a problem for you?
I wouldn't call it a problem, per se. I would call it a WGAF moment. Sounds like a team that was butt hurt about losing making a big deal over nothing. Umpire prematurely called out the inevitable. Not sure what the issue is. LD should just have a talk with him to be more careful and then keep it moving. The fact is that a double play could not have been performed before the runner from 3b crosses home and the batter touches 1b on a clean single. So what else is there to do but say be more careful and wait for the play to be over to call the game. smh
 

ichiromoco

Addicted to Softballfans
Game over. Thread over.

That being said I've never played with baserunners who don't know on their own to advance and make it official.
 

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
Game over. Thread over.

That being said I've never played with baserunners who don't know on their own to advance and make it official.

This issue is that the plate umpire yelled "ball game" before any of the runners had a chance to advance to the next base...
 

ichiromoco

Addicted to Softballfans
That's an umpire issue. As a player you SHOULD know you have to go to the next base to complete the play. If you don't that's a player issue. Were you on the defensive side of this debacle or offense?

Still no remedy other than umpire putting players where they would have reached had he not yelled out "ballgame". Game is over and teaching moment for umpire and offense.
 
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DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
That's an umpire issue. As a player you SHOULD know you have to go to the next base to complete the play. If you don't that's a player issue. Were you on the defensive side of this debacle or offense?.

It has nothing to do with what a player should know or not know. Once the umpire called "ball game" the ball became dead.
 
I wouldn't call it a problem, per se. I would call it a WGAF moment. Sounds like a team that was butt hurt about losing making a big deal over nothing. Umpire prematurely called out the inevitable. Not sure what the issue is. LD should just have a talk with him to be more careful and then keep it moving. The fact is that a double play could not have been performed before the runner from 3b crosses home and the batter touches 1b on a clean single. So what else is there to do but say be more careful and wait for the play to be over to call the game. smh

I have been involved in a double-play that started with shallow LCF throwing a crisp base hit to 3rd to 2nd for inning ending double play, so it can happen and wouldn’t matter how fast the runner on third might be heading home, no run scored on a force play 3rd out. And that’s a fact.........
 

ichiromoco

Addicted to Softballfans
It has nothing to do with what a player should know or not know. Once the umpire called "ball game" the ball became dead.

Then remedy is umpire puts runners where he deemed they would have been after he screwed up. Pretty sure we know where that would be based on his "game over" comment. You must have been on the offensive side of this because yes.. the runners should know better. You can disagree all you want.
 
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blakcherry329

Well-Known Member
I have been involved in a double-play that started with shallow LCF throwing a crisp base hit to 3rd to 2nd for inning ending double play, so it can happen and wouldn’t matter how fast the runner on third might be heading home, no run scored on a force play 3rd out. And that’s a fact.........
Um, ok. I guess every base was occupied by 300lb runners? Doesn't sound feasible, but I guess it could happen.
In any event, given the scenario as laid out by the OP, there was no play anywhere and it was a question of principle. Technically the game wasn't over when called. The outcome was a formality because there was less than 2 outs. So unless there was a possibility of a double play, on force outs, then it's much ado about nothing.
 
Um, ok. I guess every base was occupied by 300lb runners? Doesn't sound feasible, but I guess it could happen.
In any event, given the scenario as laid out by the OP, there was no play anywhere and it was a question of principle. Technically the game wasn't over when called. The outcome was a formality because there was less than 2 outs. So unless there was a possibility of a double play, on force outs, then it's much ado about nothing.

Blakberry your post quoted "The fact is that a double play could not have been performed before the runner from 3b crosses home and the batter touches 1b on a clean single." You also said, "doesn't sound feasible, but i guess it could happen" Both could happen and has happened as I was LCF that started double play in my post.

just wanted to emphasize to you and any others that might not have grasped the situation, force play as a third out negates any run scoring even if bases loaded with two outs, all three runners cross home plate and for some unforeseen reason the batter is thrown out at first base, none of the three preceding runners are scored as runs.

Also, there is always a play somewhere, may or may not be in time. So the UIC who started the thread did so for everyone's benefit to see how the umpire, who exhibited extremely poor judgment, should be counselled, he acknowledges fully that defense has the "raw aaaaas" because they lost and wanted to complain but purpose was to get anyone's input into how to "salvage this umpire" possibly? and to show players and umpires that both proper mechanics, judgement, and timing of making the calls are all integral to the success of the game.

Even though an umpire is to perform as an almost invisible factor on the field, they are integral to the overall success of every game that is played.
 

blakcherry329

Well-Known Member
Blakberry your post quoted "The fact is that a double play could not have been performed before the runner from 3b crosses home and the batter touches 1b on a clean single." You also said, "doesn't sound feasible, but i guess it could happen" Both could happen and has happened as I was LCF that started double play in my post.

just wanted to emphasize to you and any others that might not have grasped the situation, force play as a third out negates any run scoring even if bases loaded with two outs, all three runners cross home plate and for some unforeseen reason the batter is thrown out at first base, none of the three preceding runners are scored as runs.

Also, there is always a play somewhere, may or may not be in time. So the UIC who started the thread did so for everyone's benefit to see how the umpire, who exhibited extremely poor judgment, should be counselled, he acknowledges fully that defense has the "raw aaaaas" because they lost and wanted to complain but purpose was to get anyone's input into how to "salvage this umpire" possibly? and to show players and umpires that both proper mechanics, judgement, and timing of making the calls are all integral to the success of the game.

Even though an umpire is to perform as an almost invisible factor on the field, they are integral to the overall success of every game that is played.
Um my point is, while it is a very remote possibility that a double play could be made in an extreme circumstance, in this case there was no such opportunity for such an event. So in my opinion is that I would just tell the ump to be more careful in the future. not sure what else needs to be said. But that's just my opinion
 

Sonic625

An Admin
Staff member
I had a similar situation where my team was in the field in a co-ed game. 2 outs runners on 2B and 3B, the batter was a male and ended up walking forcing in the winning run. The batter never went to first, run scored and umpire called ballgame. I appealed to the home plate umpire the batter never touched the bases and the umpire overruled his ballgame and play continued into the next inning.
 

blakcherry329

Well-Known Member
I had a similar situation where my team was in the field in a co-ed game. 2 outs runners on 2B and 3B, the batter was a male and ended up walking forcing in the winning run. The batter never went to first, run scored and umpire called ballgame. I appealed to the home plate umpire the batter never touched the bases and the umpire overruled his ballgame and play continued into the next inning.
Hopefully you still lost the game. ijs :rolleyes:
 
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