ASA What would you rule?

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
Runner 1 and 3rd base and R2 on 1st base with 1 out. B3 hits a sinking line drive to F10 (right fielder). F10 makes a shoe top catch of the line drive. R1 tags properly and advances to score. R2 leaves 1st base early. F10 makes a long throw to the plate to attempt to retire R1. R1 is safe at the plate. F10 then runs into the infield and appeals that R2 left early. What do you rule?
 

ichiromoco

Addicted to Softballfans
I don't believe live ball appeal or dead ball appeal changes the result. Run Scores. Inning over after 3rd out on appeal. I seem to recall years ago it made a difference if it was live ball appeal vs dead ball. I could be wrong but believe there is no difference anymore and run scores.
 

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
I don't believe live ball appeal or dead ball appeal changes the result. Run Scores. Inning over after 3rd out on appeal. I seem to recall years ago it made a difference if it was live ball appeal vs dead ball. I could be wrong but believe there is no difference anymore and run scores.

You're missing one key aspect.
 

ichiromoco

Addicted to Softballfans
You're missing one key aspect.

What am I missing. You never mentioned which sanction this is. I believe ASA an infielder must make the appeal. Other sanctions anyone on defense or a coach can make an appeal. Other than that I'm stumped.

Edit: I see it's listed as ASA. Therefore an outfielder cannot appeal. I have no idea what an umpire does in that case though...Does he ignore the fielder or signal safe because the appeal is invalid? Now I'm more stumped.
 
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nike33kjk

Addicted to Softballfans
No play has been made on R2 yet correct?
R2 sprints back to first while outfielder is arguing...run still counts.
 

fthrmulcahy

The Veteran
Based on the info so far I don’t have a valid appeal yet. F10 yelling isn’t an appeal. If it’s not a valid live ball appeal R2 can still return to the base if he hasn’t reached second. If the appeal is valid it’s the third out and the run counts.
 

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
This is not a legal appeal. In a live ball appeal, "any fielder in possession of the ball" may make an appeal. The right fielder did NOT have possession of the ball. In a dead ball appeal, "any infielder with or without possession of the ball" may make an appeal. The right fielder is not an infielder. Therefore, this is not a proper appeal. However, I'm certain that an infielder (pitcher and catcher are considered infielders here) would soon make the same appeal thereby making it a legal appeal. In the end, you would still get the out on R2 leaving early. However, the run would probably score.
 

Scruffy harry

New Member
I dont know about ASA but in WBSF, "any defensive team member in the infield, with or without possession of the ball, may make a verbal appeal." The team coach or manager can also make an appeal, as long as they step into the infield. So my interpretation is that it doesn't matter where you are fielding, as long as you are in the infield when you make the appeal. Furthermore, the notion of "infielder" and "outfielder" is very vague. Again in WBSF, the infield is defined, not very helpfully, as "the area of the field in fair territory normally covered by infielders". An infielder is defined as anyone fielding "anywhere near or within the lines of the base paths forming fair territory", and "A player who normally plays in the outfield may be considered an infielder if they move into the area normally covered by infielders." This also applies, for example, to the infield fly rule. But this way of defining fielders by where they stand is problematic. In co-ed for example you must have 2 of each gender in infield and outfield ... but what if (say) one of your outfielders comes in very short to form a defensive ring along with SS and 2B, or indeed one of your infielders goes out to strengthen the outfield defence? All OK I suppose, though not if those two tactics happen simultaneously, ie the male rover comes in real short, while the female 2B goes out deep.
 

Sully

Wanna buy jerseys/rings?
I dont know about ASA but in WBSF, "any defensive team member in the infield, with or without possession of the ball, may make a verbal appeal." The team coach or manager can also make an appeal, as long as they step into the infield. So my interpretation is that it doesn't matter where you are fielding, as long as you are in the infield when you make the appeal. Furthermore, the notion of "infielder" and "outfielder" is very vague. Again in WBSF, the infield is defined, not very helpfully, as "the area of the field in fair territory normally covered by infielders". An infielder is defined as anyone fielding "anywhere near or within the lines of the base paths forming fair territory", and "A player who normally plays in the outfield may be considered an infielder if they move into the area normally covered by infielders." This also applies, for example, to the infield fly rule. But this way of defining fielders by where they stand is problematic. In co-ed for example you must have 2 of each gender in infield and outfield ... but what if (say) one of your outfielders comes in very short to form a defensive ring along with SS and 2B, or indeed one of your infielders goes out to strengthen the outfield defence? All OK I suppose, though not if those two tactics happen simultaneously, ie the male rover comes in real short, while the female 2B goes out deep.
Where is WBSF played exactly and why do you keep mentioning it when the thread says ASA? The few times you've referenced it the rules you talked about were different so it's not even a ruleset that seems similar enough to use as an answer.

I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't see the relevance to an ASA rule question.
 
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