ASA What's the Call

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
R1 on 3rd base with 1 out. B2 attempts to bunt but makes no contact with the ball. R1 breaks for home but sees catcher with the ball. R1 retreats to 3B. Ball and R1 arrive at 3B at the same time. R1 overruns 3B. Seeing that she will be tagged out if she returns to 3B, R1 then runs directly to 2B. No throw is made and R1 arrives safely at 2B. What do you rule?
 

amace04

Member
No Rule needed. she went back to 2nd on her own free-will...so she stays there.
you can't retreat to a prior base. ie. once you are safe at 3rd and the play ends, you cannot then run to 2nd.

Batter is out.

"D. If he runs bases in reverse order, other than what is allowed under what constitutes legal baserunning.
E. If he intentionally kicks a live ball, or intentionally interferes with a ball in play, whether or not the baserunner is in contact with his base, and an infielder has had an opportunity to play the ball.
EFFECT Sec. 5 C-E The ball is dead and the baserunner is out"
 
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DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
you can't retreat to a prior base. ie. once you are safe at 3rd and the play ends, you cannot then run to 2nd.

Batter is out.

"D. If he runs bases in reverse order, other than what is allowed under what constitutes legal baserunning.
E. If he intentionally kicks a live ball, or intentionally interferes with a ball in play, whether or not the baserunner is in contact with his base, and an infielder has had an opportunity to play the ball.
EFFECT Sec. 5 C-E The ball is dead and the baserunner is out"

And what ruleset are you quoting? This is an ASA/USA Softball question.
 

AH23

Addicted to Softballfans
There isn't a rule against this as far as I can see. The runner had legally obtained and is entitled to third, there's nothing stating she has to stay there. She wasn't making a travesty of the game or trying to confuse the fielders......... Just smart baserunning?

I honestly don't know under which rule she could be called out.
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
you can't retreat to a prior base. ie. once you are safe at 3rd and the play ends, you cannot then run to 2nd.

Batter is out.

"D. If he runs bases in reverse order, other than what is allowed under what constitutes legal baserunning.
E. If he intentionally kicks a live ball, or intentionally interferes with a ball in play, whether or not the baserunner is in contact with his base, and an infielder has had an opportunity to play the ball.
EFFECT Sec. 5 C-E The ball is dead and the baserunner is out"

How is the batter out?
 

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
Irish, my original feeling was that this is completely legal. In looking at 8.3.D, I started thinking that you could interpret the lack of a play by the defense as confusion and thereby get an out. But, I think my first gut feeling is correct. I've asked for help from someone above. Once I have more information, I'll pass it on here.
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
Irish, my original feeling was that this is completely legal. In looking at 8.3.D, I started thinking that you could interpret the lack of a play by the defense as confusion and thereby get an out. But, I think my first gut feeling is correct. I've asked for help from someone above. Once I have more information, I'll pass it on here.

I'm still trying to figure out how the defense didn't get this runner out. Not very smart play here
 

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
I'm still trying to figure out how the defense didn't get this runner out. Not very smart play here

Irish, I'm not sure why they didn't either. This was a play brought to me by one of my umpires. Since I wasn't there I honestly can't answer that question. In reading 8.3.D, I think if the defense was confused enough not to make a play on the runner then it could be an out. I'm still not sure that is the correct call though. I'm waiting on an answer from "above" and should I get that answer I will post it here.
 

amace04

Member
I don't have access to an ASA Rulebook, but if somebody does, what does this rule mentioned here say?

"Runners may never run the bases in reverse order. A runner is entitled to run the bases in reverse order (and sometimes required) when back tracking to tag up on a caught fly ball. Example…speedy runner on first and she is off at the crack of the bat…the ball is hit to DEEP center…the runner is already past third when the ball is caught…she MUST now run the bases in reverse order to safely get back to 1st. She may NOT cut across the diamond but MUST retouch the bases in the reverse order she touched them advancing."

See ASA 8-3-A
 

amace04

Member
Irish, I'm not sure why they didn't either. This was a play brought to me by one of my umpires. Since I wasn't there I honestly can't answer that question. In reading 8.3.D, I think if the defense was confused enough not to make a play on the runner then it could be an out. I'm still not sure that is the correct call though. I'm waiting on an answer from "above" and should I get that answer I will post it here.
What does 8.3 say? Can you provide a photo or type it here?
 

AH23

Addicted to Softballfans
8.3.A
When a runner must return to a base while the ball is live or dead, the bases must be touched in reverse order.
effect: If properly appealed the runner is out.
 

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
I don't have access to an ASA Rulebook, but if somebody does, what does this rule mentioned here say?

"Runners may never run the bases in reverse order. A runner is entitled to run the bases in reverse order (and sometimes required) when back tracking to tag up on a caught fly ball. Example…speedy runner on first and she is off at the crack of the bat…the ball is hit to DEEP center…the runner is already past third when the ball is caught…she MUST now run the bases in reverse order to safely get back to 1st. She may NOT cut across the diamond but MUST retouch the bases in the reverse order she touched them advancing."

See ASA 8-3-A

8.3.A says "when a runner must return..." In this case the runner is not required to return to 2B. Therefore, this rule does not apply. However, 8.3.D might apply. It says "A runner shall not run the bases in reverse order to confuse the fielders nor to make a travesty of the game."
 

amace04

Member
8.3.A says "when a runner must return..." In this case the runner is not required to return to 2B. Therefore, this rule does not apply. However, 8.3.D might apply. It says "A runner shall not run the bases in reverse order to confuse the fielders nor to make a travesty of the game."

I'd argue that rule would apply.
 

amace04

Member
8.3.A
When a runner must return to a base while the ball is live or dead, the bases must be touched in reverse order.
effect: If properly appealed the runner is out.

My interpretation is that would only apply in situations such as tagging up.
 

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
She stays on 2nd.

This is the correct answer!

What most of you are forgetting is that R1 ran past 3B. At that point, she no longer possessed 3B. Last base legally touched is now 2B. As long as she legally touched 3B when running past, she can continue back to 2B with no further penalty.

Ask yourself this.....

If the same situation happened except the ball was overthrown into LF. Does R1, who overran 3B have to retouch it if she decides to run home? The answer is, YES! Once she runs past the 3B, she no longer possesses the bag & must retouch. If she doesn't, she is subject to being put out on appeal by the defense.
 

Joker

Well-Known Member
This is the correct answer!

What most of you are forgetting is that R1 ran past 3B. At that point, she no longer possessed 3B. Last base legally touched is now 2B. As long as she legally touched 3B when running past, she can continue back to 2B with no further penalty.

Ask yourself this.....

If the same situation happened except the ball was overthrown into LF. Does R1, who overran 3B have to retouch it if she decides to run home? The answer is, YES! Once she runs past the 3B, she no longer possesses the bag & must retouch. If she doesn't, she is subject to being put out on appeal by the defense.
The first sentence of the OP says "R1 on 3rd base with 1 out." What the **** are you talking about?
 

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
And what do the 2nd & 3rd sentences say?

I knew that your attention span was short but one sentence?!!! :rolleyes:

You are truly an idiot...…..
 

milesej05

The Rookie
R1 on 3rd base with 1 out. B2 attempts to bunt but makes no contact with the ball. R1 breaks for home but sees catcher with the ball. R1 retreats to 3B. Ball and R1 arrive at 3B at the same time. R1 overruns 3B. Seeing that she will be tagged out if she returns to 3B, R1 then runs directly to 2B. No throw is made and R1 arrives safely at 2B. What do you rule?

they didn't run past 3B, they started on 3B

She ran from 3B to home, turned around, touched 3B again and continued past the bag.
 

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
Oh, for the love of...…….. o_O

It seems that everyone but you comprehends that I was referring to the point when R1 retreated to 3B & ran past it.

Your level of reading comprehension is sadly suspect.
 
This is the correct answer!

What most of you are forgetting is that R1 ran past 3B. At that point, she no longer possessed 3B. Last base legally touched is now 2B. As long as she legally touched 3B when running past, she can continue back to 2B with no further penalty.

Ask yourself this.....

If the same situation happened except the ball was overthrown into LF. Does R1, who overran 3B have to retouch it if she decides to run home? The answer is, YES! Once she runs past the 3B, she no longer possesses the bag & must retouch. If she doesn't, she is subject to being put out on appeal by the defense.


Remind me to reference this post when I confuse the poor jokers who umpire in our league by attempting this during a run down.... Bet every last one of them calls an out because you had already occupied 2b or 3b depending on the starting bag when I get into said pickle.

"wait he can't just run by me and go back to 1st like that... Nope Check softball fans forum, they said I can." :)
 

Joker

Well-Known Member
Oh, for the love of...…….. o_O

It seems that everyone but you comprehends that I was referring to the point when R1 retreated to 3B & ran past it.

Your level of reading comprehension is sadly suspect.
ran past it which way? all the OP says is they overran the base as they were going back, that's not the same as running past. running past is if they started before the base and ran past it towards another base
 

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
ran past it which way? all the OP says is they overran the base as they were going back, that's not the same as running past. running past is if they started before the base and ran past it towards another base

Obviously, Ron White was correct when he said, "you can't fix stupid"!
 
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