ASA Yep, I blew the call!

Roundtrip

Roundtrip

Starting Player
To set the table... I play (two nights) & ump (three nights) ASA softball, not including most tournaments.

Tonight, I was umping and incorrectly called the following situation. Without, pulling out your rule books tell me how you'd have called the following.

Bases Loaded, one out & batter hits a line shot at 3rd base (fair territory) hits the runner who's on 3rd at the time. YOU MAKE THE CALL!

Yes, I know the answer now that I've had time to research it...but I still think the ruling is a bit grey. The ruling I made didn't cause anyone to question the situation when it occurred, I just verified when I got done and found out I incorrectly ruled the play.
 
I

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
Roundtrip said:
To set the table... I play (two nights) & ump (three nights) ASA softball, not including most tournaments.

Tonight, I was umping and incorrectly called the following situation. Without, pulling out your rule books tell me how you'd have called the following.

Bases Loaded, one out & batter hits a line shot at 3rd base (fair territory) hits the runner who's on 3rd at the time. YOU MAKE THE CALL!

Yes, I know the answer now that I've had time to research it...but I still think the ruling is a bit grey. The ruling I made didn't cause anyone to question the situation when it occurred, I just verified when I got done and found out I incorrectly ruled the play.
Click to expand...

Where was F5?
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
rexdp10 said:
so if the third baseman is playing in front of the bag, then it would be live..??
Click to expand...

If the ball had already passed the nearest fielder (excluding the pitcher), then it's a live ball, and the runner is not out. If the ball had yet to pass a fielder, then it's a dead ball, and you award the batter-runner first base.

irishmafia said:
Where was F5?
Click to expand...

And by F5, he means third baseman.
 
Roundtrip

Roundtrip

Starting Player
Roundtrip said:
To set the table... Without, pulling out your rule books tell me how you'd have called the following.

NCASAUmp said:
If the ball had already passed the nearest fielder (excluding the pitcher), then it's a live ball, and the runner is not out. If the ball had yet to pass a fielder, then it's a dead ball, and you award the batter-runner first base.
Click to expand...

This is nearly exactly as it's written in the rule book. Typically in slow pitch it becomes a dead ball (and all forced runners are moved one base) because the defense normally plays deeper then the bases and in fast pitch most often the play continues LIVE because most often the defense plays in front of the bags. The ruling is in place to protect the runners.

Last night I failed to call "Dead Ball" and award one base to the forced runners. Thankfully, the play turned out exactly as it would have otherwise.
Click to expand...
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Roundtrip said:
This is nearly exactly as it's written in the rule book. Typically in slow pitch it becomes a dead ball (and all forced runners are moved one base) because the defense normally plays deeper then the bases and in fast pitch most often the play continues LIVE because most often the defense plays in front of the bags. The ruling is in place to protect the runners.

Last night I failed to call "Dead Ball" and award one base to the forced runners. Thankfully, the play turned out exactly as it would have otherwise.
Click to expand...

Two things we often forget as umpires:

1 - Killing the play immediately when we're supposed to (ie., on an interference call).
2 - Checking to see where all the runners are when the play is killed.

Just gotta be ready for it. :)
 
(Q'.')-o

(Q'.')-o

Addicted to Softballfans
So if I'm in fair territory let's say at second base, on the bag and I get hit. What's the ruling?
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
p17 said:
Does “passing a fielder” mean a fielder who had an opportunity on the ball?
Click to expand...

That's not a part of the rule. If you read Rules Supplement #44, it refers to the "closest defensive player." It does not say that this fielder had to have an opportunity on the ball.
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Jbird11 said:
Even if he's touching the base right...
Click to expand...

If a ground ball is first touched while it is in foul territory before passing first base or third base, what do we have? :)

Doesn't matter who touches it, doesn't matter where they're standing.
 
p17

p17

SBFs 16th all time poster
NCASAUmp said:
That's not a part of the rule. If you read Rules Supplement #44, it refers to the "closest defensive player." It does not say that this fielder had to have an opportunity on the ball.
Click to expand...

So basically that means that every time (at least most times) a runner is hit while on second base, it is a dead ball with everyone getting a base since it would have passed the pitcher, right?

So what about this situation: a runner on second knows this rule and takes advantage of it. The SS or 2B is playing up the middle with bases loaded and two outs. A ground ball is hit towards second, and the runner keeps one foot on the bag and lets the ball hit him, or he sticks out his foot so the ball hits him. Instead of being a routine inning ending out, everybody advances a base, a run scores and the inning is extended since the ball would have passed the pitcher.
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
p17 said:
So basically that means that every time (at least most times) a runner is hit while on second base, it is a dead ball with everyone getting a base since it would have passed the pitcher, right?

So what about this situation: a runner on second knows this rule and takes advantage of it. The SS or 2B is playing up the middle with bases loaded and two outs. A ground ball is hit towards second, and the runner keeps one foot on the bag and lets the ball hit him, or he sticks out his foot so the ball hits him. Instead of being a routine inning ending out, everybody advances a base, a run scores and the inning is extended since the ball would have passed the pitcher.
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Please re-read my posting. The pitcher is NOT taken into consideration as a "passed fielder."

And as for your situation, if the runner intentionally kicks a ball, then they CAN be ruled out.

This is another example of people "picking and choosing" what they want to see in the rule book.
 
p17

p17

SBFs 16th all time poster
NCASAUmp said:
Please re-read my posting. The pitcher is NOT taken into consideration as a "passed fielder."

And as for your situation, if the runner intentionally kicks a ball, then they CAN be ruled out.

This is another example of people "picking and choosing" what they want to see in the rule book.
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gotcha, i didn't read the whole thread and didn't see you post above the pitcher being excluded.

i'm not picking and choosing anything out of the rule book, just what i have read in this thread (or though i had read) ;)
 
Roundtrip

Roundtrip

Starting Player
NCASAUmp said:
Please re-read my posting. The pitcher is NOT taken into consideration as a "passed fielder."

And as for your situation, if the runner intentionally kicks a ball, then they CAN be ruled out.
This is another example of people "picking and choosing" what they want to see in the rule book.
Click to expand...

The "CAN" in this statement is incorrect, it would be "SHOULD."

The runners are also only granted a base if they are forced. So, for example if the situation occurred with runners on 1st & 3rd then after the dead ball and base awards; bases would become loaded.
 
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angermanagement

angermanagement

Addicted to Softballfans
in case i missed it somewhere on this thread,, i didnt see that you mentioned if the runner that got hit with the ball was touching the bag when struck with the ball? that call would/should have been called a fair/live ball if in deed the runner was touching the bag...
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Roundtrip said:
The "CAN" in this statement is incorrect, it would be "SHOULD."

The runners are also only granted a base if they are forced. So, for example if the situation occurred with runners on 1st & 3rd then after the dead ball and base awards; bases would become loaded.
Click to expand...

Correct. Slight misphrase on my part. :)
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
angermanagement said:
in case i missed it somewhere on this thread,, i didnt see that you mentioned if the runner that got hit with the ball was touching the bag when struck with the ball? that call would/should have been called a fair/live ball if in deed the runner was touching the bag...
Click to expand...

Please re-read the thread. You've missed it.
 
p17

p17

SBFs 16th all time poster
angermanagement said:
in case i missed it somewhere on this thread,, i didnt see that you mentioned if the runner that got hit with the ball was touching the bag when struck with the ball? that call would/should have been called a fair/live ball if in deed the runner was touching the bag...
Click to expand...

NCASAUmp said:
Please re-read the thread. You've missed it.
Click to expand...

angermanagement said:
i guess you are not understanding what i am saying, i didnt miss it
Click to expand...

then what are you trying to say :confused:
 
angermanagement

angermanagement

Addicted to Softballfans
im saying, Roundtrip stated there was a ball hit in FAIR territory that hit the R1 on 3.... its a FAIR/LIVE ball....

easy... thats all... its NOT IN FOUL TERRITORY that was previously mentioned
 
p17

p17

SBFs 16th all time poster
angermanagement said:
in case i missed it somewhere on this thread,, i didnt see that you mentioned if the runner that got hit with the ball was touching the bag when struck with the ball? that call would/should have been called a fair/live ball if in deed the runner was touching the bag...
Click to expand...

angermanagement said:
im saying, Roundtrip stated there was a ball hit in FAIR territory that hit the R1 on 3.... its a FAIR/LIVE ball....

easy... thats all... its NOT IN FOUL TERRITORY that was previously mentioned
Click to expand...

huh :confused:
 
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