USSSA Foul Tip

spos21ram

The Legend
The answer is probably the same in all associations of slowpitch, but how high does a foul tip have to go for it to be an out when caught by the catcher. The catcher in a crouch and when the catcher is standing probably doesn't matter, but I'd like a straight answer. I've heard so many different things pertaining to this question. Sorry if a repost.
 

HAVOC34

NorCal COMbatant
I umpire USSSA: A foul tip is defined as a backwards foul ball that doesn't get above the batter's head. If a foul tip is caught by the catcher it is only a foul ball, unless the batter already has one strike on them. Then it would be an out if it's caught.
 

spos21ram

The Legend
I umpire USSSA: A foul tip is defined as a backwards foul ball that doesn't get above the batter's head. If a foul tip is caught by the catcher it is only a foul ball, unless the batter already has one strike on them. Then it would be an out if it's caught.

Thanks, So the ball has to be hit higher that the batter's head to be called an out on the catch.
 

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
The answer is probably the same in all associations of slowpitch

Not necessarily.




In ASA they changed it a few years ago. As long as it doest go straight back (which is almost impossible) it's a foul ball and the batter is out if it's caught. Any arc at all is good (for the defense)
 

44oki

Hillbilly
Not necessarily.




In ASA they changed it a few years ago. As long as it doest go straight back (which is almost impossible) it's a foul ball and the batter is out if it's caught. Any arc at all is good (for the defense)

Also if the catcher had to move the glove to make the catch.
 

g2thenizzo

LUCKY SEVEN SPORTS
U-Trip has to go above the head. Just happened to me last week. Catcher cought it. Ump called "strike two, did'nt go over batters head". That was a break. Closed my eyes in disbelief 'cuz I know it was atleast eye level!
 

Gulf Coast Blue

Addicted to Softballfans
The answer is probably the same in all associations of slowpitch, but how high does a foul tip have to go for it to be an out when caught by the catcher. The catcher in a crouch and when the catcher is standing probably doesn't matter, but I'd like a straight answer. I've heard so many different things pertaining to this question. Sorry if a repost.

I am surprised that USSSA has not changed the defenition either........in most rule sets......

A foul tip is a ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to either catchers hand or glove and is caught.

If it does not meet that definition, it is not a foul tip......but a foul ball for an out. If it has any arc, or if the catcher has to make a move for the ball........it cannot be sharp or direct.....so it cannot be a foul tip, so therefore, must be a foul fly out.

Joel
 

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
How high does a foul tip have to go for it to be an out when caught by the catcher?

There is NO height requirement that a batted fly ball must travel, anywhere on the playing field, before it can be caught for an out...just like any other fly ball.

It's not head height, or shoulder height, or six feet high, etc, etc, etc...

The key is this: What path did the ball take off the bat? "Sharp and direct", like in a straight line to the catcher, OR, with "perceptible arc" (ie: anything other than a straight line)?

The "sharp and direct" hit can NEVER be caught as a fly ball for an out. It might become a foul tip (a strike) or a foul ball, but it's not treated as a batted fly ball.

The ball that comes off the bat with "perceptible arc" is considered to be a batted fly ball. It can be caught for an out- just like any other batted fly ball.

That a batted ball must travel some given height before it can be caught for an out is a long held RULE MYTH. I've seen this same question on other discussion boards about a half dozen times already this season, plus had it come up a couple of times in my games.

The source of confusion seems to be that people read the rule (or, the old rule, for those associations that have changed their rule) and misinterpret the definition of a "foul tip". The rule says if the ball goes higher than the batter's head, it cannot be a foul tip. It DOES NOT say "the ball can't be caught as a fly ball for an out". The "above the batter's head" part of the rule applies ONLY to foul tips- that is, batted balls that go in a straight line, sharply and directly to the catcher.

The misconception seems to be that people assume if a foul tip can't go higher than the batters head, then the opposite must be true for a batted fly ball- that it must go higher than the batter's head to be caught. That simply is not, and never has been the case...despite rule myths to the contrary.
 

g2thenizzo

LUCKY SEVEN SPORTS
Word for word from U-Trip rule book..... "FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes directly from the bat not higher than the batters head, to the catcher's hands and is legally caught. First contact from bat must be the catcher's hands." later under hitting it reads "a strike is called by the umpire for each foul tip. The batter is out if this is the second strike."
 

jsam21238

Addicted to Softballfans
Word for word from U-Trip rule book..... "FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes directly from the bat not higher than the batters head, to the catcher's hands and is legally caught. First contact from bat must be the catcher's hands." later under hitting it reads "a strike is called by the umpire for each foul tip. The batter is out if this is the second strike."

Key word there is direct. If there is any arc on the ball then the batter should be called out on a caught fly ball.
 

Gulf Coast Blue

Addicted to Softballfans
Word for word from U-Trip rule book..... "FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes directly from the bat not higher than the batters head, to the catcher's hands and is legally caught. First contact from bat must be the catcher's hands." later under hitting it reads "a strike is called by the umpire for each foul tip. The batter is out if this is the second strike."

It still must go directly.......no perceptible arc or the catcher having to move to the ball.

Joel
 

g2thenizzo

LUCKY SEVEN SPORTS
Basically yes. Remove the highlighted part and it reads DIRECTLY from the bat to the catchers hands. If it was to stay below the batters head top, it would basically have no arc 99.9% of the time. And if a catcher has to make a move and catches it that fast....1) he is to fast to be playing catcher and 2) You should be called out just on catchers effort alone.
 

kaerey

Addicted to Softballfans
So a weird situation that could happen.

6'6" catcher standing up because they have bad knees and don't crouch, holding their glove up to cover their face from errant struck balls (looking like a fool).

5'5" batter swings at a pitch way over his head and tips a ball that goes directly back to the glove at the catcher's face and is caught.

Because it was above the batter's head, even with direct path to the glove, he would still be out?
 

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
It is the same for any sanction with no courtesy foul.


Of course but I was referring to playing with one to waste.

First pitch = called strike.

Second pitch = foul tip, no arc, straight to the catchers glove.

In USSSA, that's an out. In ASA, it's not.



That's the way I understand it.
 

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
In every association, a foul tip has nothing to do with a courtesy foul. It is treated exactly the same as a swing and a miss.

So this was not accurate?


Word for word from U-Trip rule book..... "FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes directly from the bat not higher than the batters head, to the catcher's hands and is legally caught. First contact from bat must be the catcher's hands." later under hitting it reads "a strike is called by the umpire for each foul tip. The batter is out if this is the second strike."


Eh...maybe I'll look it up. I always thought this was one of the subtle differences in utrip rules.
 

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
So this was not accurate?





Eh...maybe I'll look it up. I always thought this was one of the subtle differences in utrip rules.

A foul tip is not a foul ball. So no, this would not be handled under any courtesy foul rules.
 

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
Holy *****...do you guys even bother to read the replies before posting? :confused:

NO. There is no defined height that a batted fly ball must reach before it can be caught for an out.
 

spos21ram

The Legend
Holy *****...do you guys even bother to read the replies before posting? :confused:

NO. There is no defined height that a batted fly ball must reach before it can be caught for an out.

Directly from the USSSA rule book...."FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes directly from the bat not higher than the batters head, to the catcher's hands and is legally caught. First contact from bat must be the catcher's hands."

A foul tip cannot be caught for an out. So therefore a ball batted higher than the batter's head is a foul ball and CAN be caught for an out.
 

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
No, no, no and no again. You guys are making the bad assumption that since a foul tip may not go higher than the batter's head, that a batted fly ball must go that high to be caught for an out. That simply is not whjat the rules says.

You logic is flawed...even if you do precede it with a fancy word like "therefore"! ;)
 

spos21ram

The Legend
No, no, no and no again. You guys are making the bad assumption that since a foul tip may not go higher than the batter's head, that a batted fly ball must go that high to be caught for an out. That simply is not whjat the rules says.

You logic is flawed...even if you do precede it with a fancy word like "therefore"! ;)

You arn't making any sense at all. So according to you a batter can hit a 100 foot pop up behind the plate and the catcher can't catch it for an out???
 
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