ASA donuts on end of bats

[NCASAUmp]

i understand what you are trying to say, but angular velocity would be the most appropriate principle. torque would be best used to describe the turning of a bolt, or the moment of a cantilever.

And what is the bat relative to the pivot point (your shoulder)? How do you stop it?

 

[Combat28Mech]

the great thing about being a machinest is you can make your own donuts to fit on whatever bat you want.....and with getting to make them on the cnc lathe I can make like 30 of them in an hour god I love my job thinking about making a dirx bat in my spare time. I made something similar out of a broken composite one I had. I wish I had more free time to do more stuff like that. Make my own cones for my batting tees too on the lathe out of nylon plastic.

 

[baseman]

My weight ring doesn't have a chance of flying off the end, it stops at the taper. Local ump told me i couldn't use it as it will cause possible wear on the bat making the bat unsafe. The ring has a rubber coating on it.

 

[irishmafia]

My weight ring doesn't have a chance of flying off the end, it stops at the taper. Local ump told me i couldn't use it as it will cause possible wear on the bat making the bat unsafe. The ring has a rubber coating on it.

Another softball player who just discovered......

Are you aware that these donuts are made in different sizes? Are you aware that some of them may come off softball bats?

If the manufacturers chose to debate that, all they have to do is present it to the sanctioning body with the necessary data just like the Powr-wrap folks did.

 

[JGorms41]

I only use warm up bats to get my back loose before the game.....no point in swinging a heavy bat before an ab. then my hands get to fast and I start missing the sweetspot.

 

[BLAR13]

I have mixed feelings about this. There's nothing in the rules against having a non-ASA bat in your dugout. However, it's usually a good idea to have those bats out of the dugout from the get-go.

Why? When teams show up to games with 15 bats on each side, it becomes much harder for me to keep track of all the non-approved or illegal bats as opposed to the legal ones. It also becomes that much easier for a player to mistakenly grab one of the non-ASA bats and risk an out/ejection.

As such, it's much easier to just get rid of these bats from the start and avoid risking any situations that could jeopardize a player's eligibility for the remainder of the game and/or tournament.

As for the umpire going into the bags herself, well... I wouldn't do that. I would, however, ask the players to empty the bags for me IF I'm going to take it upon myself to verify EVERY bat. It depends on where I'm calling: league or tourney.

As an umpire it is not your job is not to save me from myself. I am sick of umpires who get their power trip ego all worked up and make up the rules that they can make players do what they want. Please show me the rule that states you are allowed to go into my ball bag and check out what bats I have. Umpires ask for bats. Players get out bats that are to be used. If the player screws up brings a Utrip bat in the box, out and ejection that simple. Players fault. He didn't do his job knowing what bats are legal, you do yours. You say at a tournament you may do things different. Why? Players who play in tournaments SHOULD know better and if they don't tough crap. I bet if it happens once they won't forget. If a coach makes an illegal substitution do you call time and tell him? Hopefully you said no it is not your responsibility to do that the other team should catch it and then you enforce the rule appropriately. Umpires should not get involved in the game unless required and too many want to be seen and heard instead of just calling the game.

I play both associations and carry both bats. There are too many reasons why I shouldn't have to keep pulling my U-trip bat out of my bag and leave it in the car when you only have 1 reason I should. If you as an umpire take pride in your craft learn the bats and be able to identify non-approved bats by sight. Stop being a pain in the ass cause it is hard enough to defend ASA and continue to try and get teams to play in this association without umpires making up rules to have players play a game.

If I somehow accidentally go up to the plate with my Combat Virus during a modified game which is ASA, I am out and ejected and I would only be mad at 1 person that would be ME!

NCASA and mafia I am not saying you are the type of umpire I have described cause I have never had either of you as an umpire but you can not give me one valid reason you should ever go in a players ball bag to look at equipment.

 

[BLAR13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

As such, it's much easier to just get rid of these bats from the start and avoid risking any situations that could jeopardize a player's eligibility for the remainder of the game and/or tournament.


Who is it easier on? You the guy getting paid to be there or me the player who is paying for you to be there? At some point ASA needs to remember that softball is a game as well as a buisness and if you keep pissing the customer off they will go to a different store. ANd then you will have no game to umpire.

Guys will try and sneak bats in no matter what you do empty ball bags they will leave them in the stands with a fan and then go get them. Stop infringing on my rights because of cheaters when I have never cheated. Even the Police can not conduct an illegal search of ones property.

 

[pompetti]

Please show me the rule that states you are allowed to go into my ball bag and check out what bats I have.

Since you say you play USSSA, there are rules where the USSSA director can make you produce all the bats with you.


Rule 2 Section 2E

A USSSA Director may at any time ask to inspect a bat that has been
brought into the location of a USSSA sanctioned event


So they won't put their hands in the bag, but they can ask you to empty all bats out of your bag. Even if you haven't brought it to the plate, they can ask to check every bat.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Since you say you play USSSA, there are rules where the USSSA director can make you produce all the bats with you.


Rule 2 Section 2E

A USSSA Director may at any time ask to inspect a bat that has been
brought into the location of a USSSA sanctioned event


So they won't put their hands in the bag, but they can ask you to empty all bats out of your bag. Even if you haven't brought it to the plate, they can ask to check every bat.

And people say ASA is draconian?

It's called "game management." If I (or my UIC) feel it's absolutely necessary to have the teams empty out their bags, then empty them out. I would much rather avoid having to toss someone out of a game (and, as a result, the rest of the tournament) just because they ignorantly and incorrectly grabbed their friend's USSSA bat and stepped into the box.

Not to mention the fact that some teams have multiple bats that are nearly identical. What's to stop them from getting one bat looked at before the game stops, then bring out another bat of the same model that has a huge crack down the middle?

Do I do this all the time? No. How often? In league, almost never (unless I have cause). In tournament play, it depends on the UIC's expectations. I called one tourney where the UIC wanted EVERY bat inspected, and EVERY bat removed (by the players) from the bags. And if my boss says, "make them dump them out," then you're sure as hell dumping them out.

Just be glad my uniform says ASA and not TSA.

 

[SpartanBomber]

I have the same question. I used to have a wooden baseball bat that I have a doughnut glued to. I was told I couldn't swing it in the on deck circle. Is that because it's not ASA approved?

 

[irishmafia]

I have the same question. I used to have a wooden baseball bat that I have a doughnut glued to. I was told I couldn't swing it in the on deck circle. Is that because it's not ASA approved?

ASA specifically addresses warm-up bats. AND WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, if something does go wrong, even something as ridiculous as someone walking into YOUR illegal warm-up bat, ASA and the umpire WILL be sued.

Just because we have insurance doesn't mean we want to test it or use it because it DOES max out.

 

[stickin2j]

I only use warm up bats to get my back loose before the game.....no point in swinging a heavy bat before an ab. then my hands get to fast and I start missing the sweetspot.

This^ should have been the second post, then /thread.

 

[baseman]

And people say ASA is draconian?

It's called "game management." If I (or my UIC) feel it's absolutely necessary to have the teams empty out their bags, then empty them out. I would much rather avoid having to toss someone out of a game (and, as a result, the rest of the tournament) just because they ignorantly and incorrectly grabbed their friend's USSSA bat and stepped into the box.

Not to mention the fact that some teams have multiple bats that are nearly identical. What's to stop them from getting one bat looked at before the game stops, then bring out another bat of the same model that has a huge crack down the middle?

Do I do this all the time? No. How often? In league, almost never (unless I have cause). In tournament play, it depends on the UIC's expectations. I called one tourney where the UIC wanted EVERY bat inspected, and EVERY bat removed (by the players) from the bags. And if my boss says, "make them dump them out," then you're sure as hell dumping them out.

Just be glad my uniform says ASA and not TSA.

Not a chance my bag is my personal property and you have absolutly no right or just cause to demand i empty it. Your boss has no right either so he could stuff my bag up his back end and walk around in circles. As long as i only used approved bats and equipment on the field of play, what I have in my bag is none of your buisness.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Not a chance my bag is my personal property and you have absolutly no right or just cause to demand i empty it. Your boss has no right either so he could stuff my bag up his back end and walk around in circles. As long as i only used approved bats and equipment on the field of play, what I have in my bag is none of your buisness.

Well, been nice seeing ya.

"Coach, do you have a sub for 'baseman?' His smart *** is going to get sent to the parking lot if I see a bat in his bag."

Do I enjoy it? Hell no. But if my boss says, "this is how we're going to do things," then that's how we're doing things. If you don't like it, play elsewhere.

Bear in mind that not all UICs or TDs give this mandate. Just sayin'.

 

[MrEye]

Bear in mind that not all UICs or TDs give this mandate. Just sayin'.

And I think therein lies the problem. As an umpire, I understand 100% where you're coming from.

As a player, I'll never understand why ASA doesn't enforce the protocol at all Championship play tournaments.

I've been at tournaments that check all bats that come through the gate right when you sign in.

I've been at tournaments that check all bats brought into the dugout area ("Empty all bats from your bags, boys").

I've been at tournaments that only check what you pull out of your bag. ("Just pull out what you're going to use.")

And I've been at a tournament that the umps before the first game pulled the bats out of our bags for us. Not cool.

I've had a donut taken from me, but a piece of rebar allowed to stay in another year.

This past year, Indiana ASA had on their website that all bats at the state tournaments would be compression tested. I thought, "Cool, I've never seen this done." None were.

 

[pompetti]

Looking at the ASA website under the certified equipment, they list
"Dudley" and "Worth" as a certified warm up bat. Do the warm-up bats have a stamp on them just like the normal bats?

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

You can also use this.....

Joel

 

[NCASAUmp]

Looking at the ASA website under the certified equipment, they list "Dudley" and "Worth" as a certified warm up bat. Do the warm-up bats have a stamp on them just like the normal bats?

Here's the rule:

ASA 3-2: The warm-up bat shall meet the following requirements to be approved:
A. Stamped with 1/4 inch letters WB on either end of the bat or marked in one-inch letters the words WARM-UP BAT only on the barrel end of the bat.

It's been a long time since I've seen an ACTUAL warm-up bat. Most players just swing the bat they're going to use.

 

[NCASAUmp]

And I think therein lies the problem. As an umpire, I understand 100% where you're coming from.

As a player, I'll never understand why ASA doesn't enforce the protocol at all Championship play tournaments.

I've been at tournaments that check all bats that come through the gate right when you sign in.

I've been at tournaments that check all bats brought into the dugout area ("Empty all bats from your bags, boys").

I've been at tournaments that only check what you pull out of your bag. ("Just pull out what you're going to use.")

And I've been at a tournament that the umps before the first game pulled the bats out of our bags for us. Not cool.

I've had a donut taken from me, but a piece of rebar allowed to stay in another year.

This past year, Indiana ASA had on their website that all bats at the state tournaments would be compression tested. I thought, "Cool, I've never seen this done." None were.

I agree that consistency among tourneys would be great, and maybe that can eventually happen. You're right, there is a lack of consistency, and the players end up getting confused by the varying messages.

Personally, I don't like the "just pull out what you're going to use" position, as this makes it easier for guys to slip a bat into the game.

"Check 'em all," is what I say.

And for clarification, I don't go into the bags myself. I will, however, tap the bag from behind, and I can feel if there's a bat in there. If there is a bat in the bag, and if the instructions were to bring out ALL bats, then we're gonna have a problem.

 

[irishmafia]

Not a chance my bag is my personal property and you have absolutly no right or just cause to demand i empty it. Your boss has no right either so he could stuff my bag up his back end and walk around in circles. As long as i only used approved bats and equipment on the field of play, what I have in my bag is none of your buisness.

Aaahhhh....wrong!

ASA Code:

Altered Bat. Any player discovered using an altered bat, including a
doctored bat or a bat with additional weight shall be called out and
suspended from further tournament competition for a minimum of two years.
ASA shall have the right to take possession of a bat that is, in the sole
discretion of the Tournament Committee, reasonably suspected to be an
altered bat. In the event the suspected altered bat is tested and determined
to be an altered bat, then the player shall surrender ownership of the altered
bat to ASA; otherwise a bat of equal or greater value, in the sole discretion of
ASA, shall be returned to the player. A team that is discovered to have
within its possession or control an altered bat may be suspended from further
tournament competition.

Note the bold section. It doesn't say use, it says "possession or control" which would include carrying it in an equipment bag.

Since you agree to play within the ASA rules and code when you sign a roster, you have given the authority to enforce the rules which could include searching bags suspected to contain illegal equipment.

That said, I would not support such action without cause, I'm just citing the authority which you seem to think doesn't exist.

You are referring to a private or permitted area and event for which those holding the tournament are responsible. You have a choice, participate by the rules, or don't take part in the event.

At this year's Hooters, all bats were tested and those which passed were taken into custody by ASA. Each time the team played, their bats were delivered to the field and kept on the field. If a player took a bat into the dugout, the bat was confiscated immediately. It would be taken and retested and returned to the team's batch of bats after that game. From start to finish, ASA had complete control of the bats.

No bags with bats in them were permitted in the dugout. Were you going to tell them no if the asked to check the bag?

 

[bb666b77]

why be so anal about this,i play in 3 different assoc's(4 if you count outlaw),and usually have at least 1 bat of all with me at most times(i can put 8 in my bag if needed).i only pull out what is legal for what i'm to play,sticker them if you have to(so it is easier to do your job),i don't care,just don't go into my personal property,its not yours,and if i see someone in my bag,guess what"you just stole something out of it".

 

[NCASAUmp]

why be so anal about this,

Because players cheat. Constantly. So we don't trust 'em.

i play in 3 different assoc's(4 if you count outlaw),and usually have at least 1 bat of all with me at most times(i can put 8 in my bag if needed).i only pull out what is legal for what i'm to play,

And a lot of those other associations have similar or even tougher rules regarding a player/coach bringing non-approved/altered bats onto the premises.

Yes, there are honest players out there, but there are many dishonest ones out there, too. Thanks for keeping the non-approved bats in your bag. I have no problem with players being honest and keeping the hot bats out.

But not everyone shares your integrity.

sticker them if you have to(so it is easier to do your job),i don't care,

That's been done, and it's not a bad step in the right direction. However, it's not the end all, be all.

just don't go into my personal property,its not yours,and if i see someone in my bag,guess what"you just stole something out of it".

Read Irish's previous post. If you're registered ASA, we can go into the bags. We don't like to, but we can. My way of handling it is to have YOU take the bat(s) out of the bag until I'm satisfied there are no other bats in there.

And quite often, when playing an actual ASA tournament, the illegal/altered/non-approved bats are held until either the end of the tournament or until that team has been eliminated.

 

[bb666b77]

to me that is an invasion of privacy.its like cops just pulling you over to do a search on your car,with no reason to pull you over,why.one of my senior assoc,goes the sticker route,i don't know why when we can use the hot stuff anyways,but they do the inspection anyways.we take what bats we want to use to them(we are only allowed to take 3 up to them,so there is a lot of teammate help if you have more) and they put a sticker on them.

 

[irishmafia]

to me that is an invasion of privacy.its like cops just pulling you over to do a search on your car,with no reason to pull you over,why.one of my senior assoc,goes the sticker route,i don't know why when we can use the hot stuff anyways,but they do the inspection anyways.we take what bats we want to use to them(we are only allowed to take 3 up to them,so there is a lot of teammate help if you have more) and they put a sticker on them.

Just the opposite. A cop will pull you over driving down ANY public street with cause.

When you come to a game/tournament, you are entereing a specific venue to play a specific game under specific rules.

You're in Texas, right? People in Texas carry guns? Not a problem, right? If you walk into a goverment building, airport or any other facility that maintains a security check point, do you tell them that what you have on your body is private and they have no right to search you, but you insist on proceeding anyway? How does that work out for you?

You can always turn around and take the unauthorized weapon to your car, secure it and return to conduct your business.

You know the bats are illegal, so why bring them? Why intentionally initiate a confrontational situation? And then whine about the ramifications of your actions!

 

[MrEye]

I think this is getting blown out of proportion. I've played in state and National tournaments for 10 years and have only seen one ump go into my bag. Most UIC/TDs are reasonable - We had a guy forget a dented bat was in his bag. He asked if he could immediately take it to his car instead of them holding it until we were eliminated. They didn't care.

Guys, the UICs are just doing their job, albeit inconsistantly as I pointed out earlier. But, actively rifling through players' bags...I think it's more of a personality issue - UIC, ump and player - than an ASA "problem."

 

[NCASAUmp]

I think this is getting blown out of proportion. I've played in state and National tournaments for 10 years and have only seen one ump go into my bag. Most UIC/TDs are reasonable - We had a guy forget a dented bat was in his bag. He asked if he could immediately take it to his car instead of them holding it until we were eliminated. They didn't care.

Guys, the UICs are just doing their job, albeit inconsistantly as I pointed out earlier. But, actively rifling through players' bags...I think it's more of a personality issue - UIC, ump and player - than an ASA "problem."

Exactly. As I've said before, I'm with ASA, not TSA.

 

[irishmafia]

I think this is getting blown out of proportion. I've played in state and National tournaments for 10 years and have only seen one ump go into my bag. Most UIC/TDs are reasonable - We had a guy forget a dented bat was in his bag. He asked if he could immediately take it to his car instead of them holding it until we were eliminated. They didn't care.

Guys, the UICs are just doing their job, albeit inconsistantly as I pointed out earlier. But, actively rifling through players' bags...I think it's more of a personality issue - UIC, ump and player - than an ASA "problem."

Absolutely. The code I cited referred to search for a bat, not rifling through someone's bag. I don't suggest anyone go into someone else's bag without them present or with their permission. After all, who knows what that crazy a** may have in there

 

[bb666b77]

Just the opposite. A cop will pull you over driving down ANY public street with cause.

When you come to a game/tournament, you are entereing a specific venue to play a specific game under specific rules.

You're in Texas, right? People in Texas carry guns? Not a problem, right? If you walk into a goverment building, airport or any other facility that maintains a security check point, do you tell them that what you have on your body is private and they have no right to search you, but you insist on proceeding anyway? How does that work out for you?

You can always turn around and take the unauthorized weapon to your car, secure it and return to conduct your business.

You know the bats are illegal, so why bring them? Why intentionally initiate a confrontational situation? And then whine about the ramifications of your actions!

I think this is getting blown out of proportion. I've played in state and National tournaments for 10 years and have only seen one ump go into my bag. Most UIC/TDs are reasonable - We had a guy forget a dented bat was in his bag. He asked if he could immediately take it to his car instead of them holding it until we were eliminated. They didn't care.

Guys, the UICs are just doing their job, albeit inconsistantly as I pointed out earlier. But, actively rifling through players' bags...I think it's more of a personality issue - UIC, ump and player - than an ASA "problem."

not what i said,they need a cause,you umps just pull open a bag with no cause........


guns kill people, bats don't,per say,tho they can.

b/c that is the way i load my bag,i use what is legal only for what assoc i'm playing......

i have been to nationals where they only want to see what your going to use,i go into BLD parks all the time,and yes they search,but only for weapons and smuggle in food/drinks... they both couldn't careless what all my other bats are.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Absolutely. The code I cited referred to search for a bat, not rifling through someone's bag. I don't suggest anyone go into someone else's bag without them present or with their permission. After all, who knows what that crazy a** may have in there

Exactly. And this is why whenever I have to check ALL bats, I ask the player, "hey, can you take the bats out of the bag for me?" If I'm reasonably satisfied that all bats are out of the bag, then I move on.

I know some fellas look at us as the "big, bad umpires," but it's all out of context. On the field, I'm usually pretty easy-going and reasonable... Until I'm given reason to be otherwise. I enjoy my job and enjoy the game, but if I've gotta clamp down, then so be it.

 

[NCASAUmp]

not what i said,they need a cause,you umps just pull open a bag with no cause........


guns kill people, bats don't,per say,tho they can.

b/c that is the way i load my bag,i use what is legal only for what assoc i'm playing......

i have been to nationals where they only want to see what your going to use,i go into BLD parks all the time,and yes they search,but only for weapons and smuggle in food/drinks... they both couldn't careless what all my other bats are.

One reason why I didn't want to use the cop analogy - the 4th Amendment doesn't help you on the softball field. That's for LEOs.

I'm not a LEO.

I'm an umpire.

What's in the bag, son?