Infield fly rule clarification

V

vanmol

Member
1.41 • INFIELD FLY A fair fly ball (not including a line drive) that can be caught by any fielder with ordinary effort when first and second bases or first, second and third bases are occupied with less than two outs. Any fielder can catch an infield fly. NOTE: When it becomes apparent that a batted ball will be an infield fly, the umpire shall immediately declare, "infield fly - batter is out", to aid the runners. If the ball is near the foul lines, the umpire shall declare, "infield fly - if fair". The ball is live and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or re-touch and advance after a fielder touches the ball. If the hit ball becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any other foul ball. Failure of the umpire to call "infield fly," does not negate the infield fly. If the error is discovered prior to the next pitch, the infield fly rule may still be called.

The above is the USSA rule regarding an infield fly. My question is this. The 1st base umpire calls an infield fly that no infielder or outfielder can make an ordinary play on and the ball falls without being caught, can the home plate ump reverse that call? If so I would think the batter is awarded 1st base and the the other runners advance one base.
 
MaverickAH

MaverickAH

Well-Known Member
vanmol said:
1.41 • INFIELD FLY A fair fly ball (not including a line drive) that can be caught by any fielder with ordinary effort when first and second bases or first, second and third bases are occupied with less than two outs. Any fielder can catch an infield fly. NOTE: When it becomes apparent that a batted ball will be an infield fly, the umpire shall immediately declare, "infield fly - batter is out", to aid the runners. If the ball is near the foul lines, the umpire shall declare, "infield fly - if fair". The ball is live and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or re-touch and advance after a fielder touches the ball. If the hit ball becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any other foul ball. Failure of the umpire to call "infield fly," does not negate the infield fly. If the error is discovered prior to the next pitch, the infield fly rule may still be called.

The above is the USSA rule regarding an infield fly. My question is this. The 1st base umpire calls an infield fly that no infielder or outfielder can make an ordinary play on and the ball falls without being caught, can the home plate ump reverse that call? If so I would think the batter is awarded 1st base and the the other runners advance one base.
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Did you add an extra "S" or forget one?

In any case USSSA does not have an Umpire Manual, USA does. The USA Umpire Manual specifically states that a BU should only signal Infield Fly. Only the PU should verbalizing the call. Now if the BU does actually make the call, only they can change it. The PU should never step in to reverse it.
 
V

vanmol

Member
MaverickAH said:
Did you add an extra "S" or forget one?

In any case USSSA does not have an Umpire Manual, USA does. The USA Umpire Manual specifically states that a BU should only signal Infield Fly. Only the PU should verbalizing the call. Now if the BU does actually make the call, only they can change it. The PU should never step in to reverse it.
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Yep, forgot an "s". According to your answer the BU, if he feels he made the wrong call can reverse it. There are some other who seem to feel the call cannot be reversed at all. Need more input.
 
U

ureout

The Veteran
not only did you forget an S you have the letters mixed up... this is not an USSSA rule it is a SSUSA senior softball rule
and in SSUSA the PU should make the call just like in USA.. .

I brought up a similar scenario back in october 2017 and NEVER got a positive answer on what to do... NCASA argued it could be fixed and irishmafia said it couldn't ... and joker said the bell can't be unrung... I sent e-mails to 2 USA UIC's 1 in fla. and 1 in the mid-west and guess what.... I got 2 different answers... 1 UIC said eat the call batter is out ... the other said use your judgement and put runners where you deem they would have been if the IF call wasn't made
 
V

vanmol

Member
MaverickAH said:
Did you add an extra "S" or forget one?

In any case USSSA does not have an Umpire Manual, USA does. The USA Umpire Manual specifically states that a BU should only signal Infield Fly. Only the PU should verbalizing the call. Now if the BU does actually make the call, only they can change it. The PU should never step in to reverse it.
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Your quite right, he is saying that the call can be reversed by the Ump that made the call and only him. I was just saying that others feel that the call cannot be overturned at all. No clear answer yet.
 
Sully

Sully

Wanna buy jerseys/rings?
vanmol said:
1.41 • INFIELD FLY A fair fly ball (not including a line drive) that can be caught by any fielder with ordinary effort when first and second bases or first, second and third bases are occupied with less than two outs. Any fielder can catch an infield fly. NOTE: When it becomes apparent that a batted ball will be an infield fly, the umpire shall immediately declare, "infield fly - batter is out", to aid the runners. If the ball is near the foul lines, the umpire shall declare, "infield fly - if fair". The ball is live and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or re-touch and advance after a fielder touches the ball. If the hit ball becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any other foul ball. Failure of the umpire to call "infield fly," does not negate the infield fly. If the error is discovered prior to the next pitch, the infield fly rule may still be called.

The above is the USSA rule regarding an infield fly. My question is this. The 1st base umpire calls an infield fly that no infielder or outfielder can make an ordinary play on and the ball falls without being caught, can the home plate ump reverse that call? If so I would think the batter is awarded 1st base and the the other runners advance one base.
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Did the 1B umpire say that it was the wrong call or is this the "my team had a call against us we didn't like so can the home plate umpire reverse it?" If the 1B umpire made the call and feels it was wrong they should be able to set it straight. If the 1B umpire made the call and still thinks it was IF Fly and the fielders just didn't catch it, then it should stand.
 
tonys1

tonys1

Moderator
@vanmol, why are all your posts about weird ump situations and you always end up complaining? Can't tell if you're a bad troll or terrible ump looking for validation.
 
hitless45

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
tonys1 said:
@vanmol, why are all your posts about weird ump situations and you always end up complaining? Can't tell if you're a bad troll or terrible ump looking for validation.
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I'm thinking this, looking for validation on a call he made or his team got a (judgment) call against them
 
U

ureout

The Veteran
Joker said:
the fact he's asking an infield fly question and mentions that an outfielder couldn't make a play is all you need to know
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joker, first of all an outfielder can be considered in making an IF call ...

instead of everyone making their smart azz answers why don't you just answer the OP's question...

I'm sure anyone that has umpired or even watched games for a number of years has seen an IF called and thought wow that was called way to early or I would have never called IF on that hit

so do you think that an IF call be changed by the umpire who originally made the call if after the play is complete and the ball is not caught they realize they shouldn't have made the call or do they just eat the call and learn from it ... we all know umpires make mistakes on fair and foul and safe or out... the same mistake can happen on a IF call ... so can it be changed and bases be awarded for B/R and runners using the below rule

Section 3. UMPIRE’S JUDGMENT.
C. The plate umpire may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an umpire’s decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a runner or the defensive team in jeopardy.
 
hitless45

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
It has been answered.. JUDGMENT call.

As it has been stated here in this thread and the thread op started but worded differently. If there is more to his question (story) he should state all facts not just (what if) jeez
 
tonys1

tonys1

Moderator
Ump threads don't ever end with an answer. Some umps have to show us their incredible knowledge of the game and try to put others down. Must suck for the ones who are 50 and still live in their mom's basement to scrape by with $12 to ump a game to always feel like they have something to prove.
 
U

ureout

The Veteran
tonys1 said:
Ump threads don't ever end with an answer. Some umps have to show us their incredible knowledge of the game and try to put others down. Must suck for the ones who are 50 and still live in their mom's basement to scrape by with $12 to ump a game to always feel like they have something to prove.
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tony... that's no reason to bring wayne into this
 
hitless45

hitless45

Addicted to Softballfans
No disrespect to any of them but even when things have been clarified through rules/rule books along come another one with his/her interpretation of (the rule) they are all smater than im am by far but man why keeep feeding a thread that keeps going in circles.
 
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V

vanmol

Member
tonys1 said:
@vanmol, why are all your posts about weird ump situations and you always end up complaining? Can't tell if you're a bad troll or terrible ump looking for validation.
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Ok, I an a new ump and because of that I am seeing a lot of situations that I am not familiar with and would like to get clarification on. So sue me! Where do you get the complaining act from? If I don't think the question has been answered, I don't think that it is out of bounds to ask for more info or clarification. So, bottom line, if you can't help or add something positive then do me the favor of holding your acid tongue.
 
V

vanmol

Member
ureout said:
joker, first of all an outfielder can be considered in making an IF call ...

instead of everyone making their smart azz answers why don't you just answer the OP's question...

I'm sure anyone that has umpired or even watched games for a number of years has seen an IF called and thought wow that was called way to early or I would have never called IF on that hit

so do you think that an IF call be changed by the umpire who originally made the call if after the play is complete and the ball is not caught they realize they shouldn't have made the call or do they just eat the call and learn from it ... we all know umpires make mistakes on fair and foul and safe or out... the same mistake can happen on a IF call ... so can it be changed and bases be awarded for B/R and runners using the below rule

Section 3. UMPIRE’S JUDGMENT.
C. The plate umpire may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an umpire’s decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a runner or the defensive team in jeopardy.
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Thank you!
 
tonys1

tonys1

Moderator
vanmol said:
Ok, I an a new ump and because of that I am seeing a lot of situations that I am not familiar with and would like to get clarification on. So sue me! Where do you get the complaining act from? If I don't think the question has been answered, I don't think that it is out of bounds to ask for more info or clarification. So, bottom line, if you can't help or add something positive then do me the favor of holding your acid tongue.
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You seem to have a terrible attitude and probably umping for the wrong reasons. It’s garbage umps like you who give the others a bad rep.
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
vanmol said:
Ok, I an a new ump and because of that I am seeing a lot of situations that I am not familiar with and would like to get clarification on. So sue me! Where do you get the complaining act from? If I don't think the question has been answered, I don't think that it is out of bounds to ask for more info or clarification. So, bottom line, if you can't help or add something positive then do me the favor of holding your acid tongue.
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so why the need for a 2nd thread?

just post the actual scenario so people can answer instead of this vague **** on repeat
 
V

vanmol

Member
tonys1 said:
You seem to have a terrible attitude and probably umping for the wrong reasons. It’s garbage umps like you who give the others a bad rep.
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WOW! Talk about attitude.
Joker said:
so why the need for a 2nd thread?

just post the actual scenario so people can answer instead of this vague **** on repeat
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I think that I did explain the situation as follows
The above is the USSA rule regarding an infield fly. My question is this. The 1st base umpire calls an infield fly that no infielder or outfielder can make an ordinary play on and the ball falls without being caught, can the home plate ump reverse that call? If so I would think the batter is awarded 1st base and the the other runners advance one base.

As far as the duel post, that is on me. Instead of bitchen about it why not just ignore it or is it that you just like ragging on others? Not impressed!
 
V

vanmol

Member
tonys1 said:
You seem to have a terrible attitude and probably umping for the wrong reasons. It’s garbage umps like you who give the others a bad rep.
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Ok, I admit it---You ticked me off. Who the hell are you to call be a garbage ump.
When I do a game the players know that I am in charge. I check the bats, go over the ground rules and answer any and all questions in pre game meeting. I am very consistent with a 6-12 pitch arc for both sides. I make all calls loudly and let the batter know EARLY if a pitch is to high or flat. I never make out calls early, I take my time and get it right. I freely admit that I do not have the rule book memorized and do need occasion help at times so unlike yourself, I am not PERFECT!
There is nothing wrong with my attitude except when it comes to you.
 
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