2012 National Championship 10 Man
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Diggity4223
Addicted to Softballfans
I play with LC and want to point out that we had nothing to do with that game and the protest. We could care less who pitches against us. We just want to play against a good team and whoever wins wins. We will always shake your hand and share a beer with you 
I thought Wiley threw legal and he brought some gas with a great knuckler. Trust me we do not want a win like that and was something we WOULD never do.
I thought Wiley threw legal and he brought some gas with a great knuckler. Trust me we do not want a win like that and was something we WOULD never do.Little Creek I was being serious congrats to you guys ya had two walk off wins sunday thats a great job your good guys in my book! FAD #22 I dont wanna hear your crap I was there when you were on the phone with Wiley doesnt mean we believe you! Well run tournament minus the card we were dealt but hey thats the way it goes. We ran into a buzzsaw in Team Stats on sunday so o well getm next year
asa2012modtourn
Part Time Player
9 Man Pitching List
gentlemen,
I've read all the postings about the 9man list and squealing to the tourney director. First, no one leaked names to me, the only inquiries were whether the 9man list was still valid and in effect. The TC did check the list for names and found one prior to the tourney, the other was discovered during the tourney when a spectator questioned if a pitcher was on the list, and the other inquiry was negative as the pitcher was no longer on the list.
Thanks to the teams that came to PH, we saw some great games and the PH fans enjoyed it. There were some illegal pitches called, and the pitchers are very good, some are very close to illegal/legal each delivery and hard to detect.
Congrats to Degroodts on their 2012 championship!
Terry Ruff
Tourney Director
gentlemen,
I've read all the postings about the 9man list and squealing to the tourney director. First, no one leaked names to me, the only inquiries were whether the 9man list was still valid and in effect. The TC did check the list for names and found one prior to the tourney, the other was discovered during the tourney when a spectator questioned if a pitcher was on the list, and the other inquiry was negative as the pitcher was no longer on the list.
Thanks to the teams that came to PH, we saw some great games and the PH fans enjoyed it. There were some illegal pitches called, and the pitchers are very good, some are very close to illegal/legal each delivery and hard to detect.
Congrats to Degroodts on their 2012 championship!
Terry Ruff
Tourney Director
NYSoftball20
Addicted to Softballfans
Fort Apache
I heard from a few friends before this tournament started that Tony from the Dodgers complained about a pitchers list and who is on it. Didn't sound like the guy I know so every time I asked how do you know it was Tony I got the answer that is what I heard or he posted a list on softballfans.
The most reasonable person I spoke with about this said it wasn't Tony but another team (who I won't disparage and start rumors about since I have no idea if this is true)
The guy I know used to put his team in every top tournament there was. He played every year in the best open level 9 man league in the country and traveled 2 hours after work to do it. They never ducked or complained about facing good competition like so many others so I have to question what changed that would make him do this?
I haven't been involved in modified for a long time now and stuff like this makes me remember why I left. I did the simple thing and called Tony and asked him point blank if he protested Wiley at the tournament. His answer was absolutely not. If he did he would have no problem telling it to your face. He is a good guy who has never backed away from playing good competition so he doesn't deserve to be slammed because of rumors.
If Wiley was ruled an illegal player someone at the tournament had to protest him. It isn't the tournament directors job to challenge player eligibility. Someone did it and getting the truth shouldn't be that hard.
That list and the entire 10 man thing is a story for another day but if 10 Man has no level to advance to it should be considered 10 man major, no? If a team can defend its title that means there is no higher level. How can a player be illegal on any major level? 10 Man is not presently considered a lower level then 9 man, although it should be. Problem with that is top 4 teams would then have to move up to 9 man if it was set up that way. If that was the case based on logic if Wiley was on the list then he should be illegal BUT it is not set up that way and seems like he got screwed.
Terry - I guess I am wrong but I thought player eligibility had to be challenged or protested?
I heard from a few friends before this tournament started that Tony from the Dodgers complained about a pitchers list and who is on it. Didn't sound like the guy I know so every time I asked how do you know it was Tony I got the answer that is what I heard or he posted a list on softballfans.
The most reasonable person I spoke with about this said it wasn't Tony but another team (who I won't disparage and start rumors about since I have no idea if this is true)
The guy I know used to put his team in every top tournament there was. He played every year in the best open level 9 man league in the country and traveled 2 hours after work to do it. They never ducked or complained about facing good competition like so many others so I have to question what changed that would make him do this?
I haven't been involved in modified for a long time now and stuff like this makes me remember why I left. I did the simple thing and called Tony and asked him point blank if he protested Wiley at the tournament. His answer was absolutely not. If he did he would have no problem telling it to your face. He is a good guy who has never backed away from playing good competition so he doesn't deserve to be slammed because of rumors.
If Wiley was ruled an illegal player someone at the tournament had to protest him. It isn't the tournament directors job to challenge player eligibility. Someone did it and getting the truth shouldn't be that hard.
That list and the entire 10 man thing is a story for another day but if 10 Man has no level to advance to it should be considered 10 man major, no? If a team can defend its title that means there is no higher level. How can a player be illegal on any major level? 10 Man is not presently considered a lower level then 9 man, although it should be. Problem with that is top 4 teams would then have to move up to 9 man if it was set up that way. If that was the case based on logic if Wiley was on the list then he should be illegal BUT it is not set up that way and seems like he got screwed.
Terry - I guess I am wrong but I thought player eligibility had to be challenged or protested?
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NYSoftball20
Addicted to Softballfans
Just found the updated ASA Code online-
Looks like player eligibility must have faced a court battle because this looks like a lawyer wrote it. Not sure when this was instituted but I don't remember it being in there 5 or so years ago
There is also something saying anyone on 9 players list can't play 10 man. That is definitely something put in over the last 5 years.
Article 501
PART 5
ELIGIBILITY, COMPETITION AND TOURNAMENTS
ELIGIBILITY.
A. Eligibility Compliance Required By Each Player, Manager and
Team.
01. It is the duty of each player, player’s parent (if applicable), manager, coach and team to review ASA’s eligibility requirements and comply with ASA’s eligibility requirements. Each team manager/coach is responsible for complying with the eligibility requirements and other requirements set forth in the ASA Code as to his/her team. This specifically includes, without limitation, eligibility requirements pertaining to proper classification, proper divisions, eligible pick up player requirements, eligible age requirements and all other eligibility requirements.
02. As to eligibility matters, any assurances or statements from ASA members, ASA commissioners or ASA officials other than ASA’s Executive Director are not binding and shall not be binding upon ASA and shall not constitute a valid excuse for a team’s, manager’s or player’s failure to comply with any eligibility requirement. ASA disclaims any and all liability for any player, team, manager or coach’s reliance’s upon assurances of persons other than ASA’s Executive Director. ASA disclaims any and all liability for any player, team, manager or coach’s failure to comply with all eligibility requirements.
03. Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code and that incur travel and other expenses in connection with an ASA tournament do so at their own risk and peril. Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code are subject to disqualification or forfeiture at any time, as otherwise provided for in the ASA Code (i.e. upon the timely protest of any other team or official).
04. Any ASA official’s signature (i.e. Commissioner’s signature) on a roster form or any other document shall not be considered as a determination of the eligibility of a player or team. Eligibility of players or teams shall be governed as otherwise provided in the Code. Any solicitation or invitation for a team to participate in an ASA tournament by a Tournament Director or other ASA Official shall not be considered a determination of that team’s eligibility. Eligibility of players or teams shall be exclusively governed as provided in the Code.
B. International Eligibility Standards. The ASA shall not adopt an eligibility standard that is more restrictive than that of the applicable international sports federation, the International Softball Federation.
C. Team Eligibility.
01. Team Registration. A team must register with the local association in which the greatest number of its’ players reside, and this number must be retained for the remainder of the season.
EXCEPTION: Teams in an adjoining county to a state or metro association may register with either the state or the metro association by mutual consent of the State/Metro Commissioner’s involved.
48
02. Team Participation. A team may register and participate in more than one division of play, but that team is limited to only one classification within a division of Championship play.
EXCEPTIONS:
a. All Divisions of Play. In National Championship Finals, teams can play in a higher classification than their current classification. Participation in a higher classification could affect the team in their next ASA playing season.
b. Armed Services Teams. The Women’s Armed Services team must play in Women’s Class Open Slow Pitch and the Men’s Armed Services team must play in the Men’s Class A Slow Pitch.
c. Fast Pitch.
01. In all adult Fast Pitch, no USA National Team Member may participate below the Class A level.
02. All Men's Fast Pitch players and or teams rated below Major are eligible to participate in the Men's Major Fast Pitch National Championship and retain their eligibility for their original classification in championship play.
03. Men’s Major Fast Pitch players will be classified by a restricted fast pitch players list. The restricted fast pitch players list will be available on the ASA website and this list will be updated, modified and/or revised on a regular and continuous basis, but will be finalized by July 1 each year for the current year’s National Championship Finals. The players on this list are ineligible to participate in the Men’s Class A, B and C Fast Pitch classification. Any appeals regarding this list can be made through the ASA National Office to the fast pitch sub-committee.
d. Modified Pitch. Men’s 9-Man Modified Pitch teams will be determined by a restricted pitchers/players list. The restricted modified pitch pitchers/players list will be available on the ASA website and this list will be updated, modified and/or revised on a regular and continuous basis but will be finalized by August 1 each year for the current year’s National Championship Finals. Pitchers/players listed on this list are ineligible to participate in the 10-Man Modified championship play tournaments. Any appeals regarding this list can be made through the ASA National Office to the modified pitch sub- committee.
Looks like player eligibility must have faced a court battle because this looks like a lawyer wrote it. Not sure when this was instituted but I don't remember it being in there 5 or so years ago
There is also something saying anyone on 9 players list can't play 10 man. That is definitely something put in over the last 5 years.
Article 501
PART 5
ELIGIBILITY, COMPETITION AND TOURNAMENTS
ELIGIBILITY.
A. Eligibility Compliance Required By Each Player, Manager and
Team.
01. It is the duty of each player, player’s parent (if applicable), manager, coach and team to review ASA’s eligibility requirements and comply with ASA’s eligibility requirements. Each team manager/coach is responsible for complying with the eligibility requirements and other requirements set forth in the ASA Code as to his/her team. This specifically includes, without limitation, eligibility requirements pertaining to proper classification, proper divisions, eligible pick up player requirements, eligible age requirements and all other eligibility requirements.
02. As to eligibility matters, any assurances or statements from ASA members, ASA commissioners or ASA officials other than ASA’s Executive Director are not binding and shall not be binding upon ASA and shall not constitute a valid excuse for a team’s, manager’s or player’s failure to comply with any eligibility requirement. ASA disclaims any and all liability for any player, team, manager or coach’s reliance’s upon assurances of persons other than ASA’s Executive Director. ASA disclaims any and all liability for any player, team, manager or coach’s failure to comply with all eligibility requirements.
03. Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code and that incur travel and other expenses in connection with an ASA tournament do so at their own risk and peril. Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code are subject to disqualification or forfeiture at any time, as otherwise provided for in the ASA Code (i.e. upon the timely protest of any other team or official).
04. Any ASA official’s signature (i.e. Commissioner’s signature) on a roster form or any other document shall not be considered as a determination of the eligibility of a player or team. Eligibility of players or teams shall be governed as otherwise provided in the Code. Any solicitation or invitation for a team to participate in an ASA tournament by a Tournament Director or other ASA Official shall not be considered a determination of that team’s eligibility. Eligibility of players or teams shall be exclusively governed as provided in the Code.
B. International Eligibility Standards. The ASA shall not adopt an eligibility standard that is more restrictive than that of the applicable international sports federation, the International Softball Federation.
C. Team Eligibility.
01. Team Registration. A team must register with the local association in which the greatest number of its’ players reside, and this number must be retained for the remainder of the season.
EXCEPTION: Teams in an adjoining county to a state or metro association may register with either the state or the metro association by mutual consent of the State/Metro Commissioner’s involved.
48
02. Team Participation. A team may register and participate in more than one division of play, but that team is limited to only one classification within a division of Championship play.
EXCEPTIONS:
a. All Divisions of Play. In National Championship Finals, teams can play in a higher classification than their current classification. Participation in a higher classification could affect the team in their next ASA playing season.
b. Armed Services Teams. The Women’s Armed Services team must play in Women’s Class Open Slow Pitch and the Men’s Armed Services team must play in the Men’s Class A Slow Pitch.
c. Fast Pitch.
01. In all adult Fast Pitch, no USA National Team Member may participate below the Class A level.
02. All Men's Fast Pitch players and or teams rated below Major are eligible to participate in the Men's Major Fast Pitch National Championship and retain their eligibility for their original classification in championship play.
03. Men’s Major Fast Pitch players will be classified by a restricted fast pitch players list. The restricted fast pitch players list will be available on the ASA website and this list will be updated, modified and/or revised on a regular and continuous basis, but will be finalized by July 1 each year for the current year’s National Championship Finals. The players on this list are ineligible to participate in the Men’s Class A, B and C Fast Pitch classification. Any appeals regarding this list can be made through the ASA National Office to the fast pitch sub-committee.
d. Modified Pitch. Men’s 9-Man Modified Pitch teams will be determined by a restricted pitchers/players list. The restricted modified pitch pitchers/players list will be available on the ASA website and this list will be updated, modified and/or revised on a regular and continuous basis but will be finalized by August 1 each year for the current year’s National Championship Finals. Pitchers/players listed on this list are ineligible to participate in the 10-Man Modified championship play tournaments. Any appeals regarding this list can be made through the ASA National Office to the modified pitch sub- committee.
Old dirty basta
Addicted to Softballfans
Wow just because u call a few Pitches illegal doesn't mean you are done. The three major things that are called are wrist, crossover and square of hips. No way in hell a slinger can do all three of these.why are you for posting on here. I suggest u read and re read rules on modified 10 man vs 9 man. If you sign up for ten man you Play 10 man. And 9 man is 9 man. Cut and dry. Funny all these newspaper and Internet articles have the mangers complaining about pitching. Haha
I say BS to that statement. Three umpires should be able to figure it out. Read the rules, get your umpires on the same page with a clear understanding of what is legal and what is not, it's not that hard. It seems to me all they were calling was the ball outside the wrist, why did they stop there. You have opened up the door to turn the 10 Man Modified National Tournament into another Drifton. This year some one said the 24 teams was a record. Good luck getting that many again. What I don't understand it was the same UIC as last year and Minn did a much better job with the pitching, IMO. They were banging pitchers right and left, they were relentless. They did their job keeping it legal.
I think another part of the problem is this tourney is listed as 9 man/10 man Modifed Nationals. Two separate tournaments if they get enough teams. They don't get enough teams for 9 man so the 9 man teams are forced to play in the 10 man tourny.
the list is no good ,cause it is for a tourny that has not happened since 2001, yep 11 years. i beleived that i was off list after my situation in drifton last year ,in which phone calls were made , to asa oklahoma. we were told that i would be removed from that list by phone as told to us by the tourny people there. my bad for thinking this would happen. i dont blame tony or tourny director, but someone did bring up the list, man up thats all i ask. any way i will be back with jubb and off that stinking list. gregg as usual rite on top of the rules as it was i turned out not to be the one everybody should have been concerned with , go kodiak
Diggity4223
Addicted to Softballfans
Thanks Jubb21!!!! I am hoping you guys come to WI next year if it is here. Rumors has it will be in Fondy or GB which are both nice complexes and all in one location which makes it nice to watch games when your done with yours.
And I do hope someone gets Wiley off the list ASAP as that is a shame he was not allowed to toss.
Hats off to all the teams in PoHo this year and Kodiak was throwing seeds this weekend!!!!!
How can the Asa justify someone being on that list and not even allow them to play in the field or hit that part of the rule does not make sense .Wiley was told that he was off the list so that he could pitch in drifton or else he would have not been allowed to pitch there .I can understand everyone complaining about me pitching but everyone has to realize all I want to do is play ball if I was really slinging it everyone there would have seen there is a big difference on how I was pitching.I hate to say it but that pitchers list hurt the game did nothing to help it the guys who were modified pitchers got put on a list with windmill guys I for one love the modified game just wish I would come back to where it was.People should not bash me because my pitch comes in harder this is not my fault .
NYSoftball20
Addicted to Softballfans
Hey I-Man,
That is exactly what I thought when I read it but didn't want to open a can of worms. It looks like it was written with that in mind to protect the ASA from being liable for a player/teams travel expenses. Looks to put the burden on the player and team so I guess it has changed and nobody does need to protest if the tournament director becomes aware of an ineligible player.
Jubb 21 let me start by saying If I did say it why would I deny it I am not afraid of you or anyone else for that matter. I mention the List 2 weeks ago on this site soI can gain knowledge for myself and know who I would be able to bring and spoke to Wiley at our first game about the list. Shame on your coach for not knowing the rules and shame on the TC for not picking it up sooner, I dont make the rules and I could care less I have been playing and coaching the same team with no sponser for 22 years never back away from competition and yes most of the time we go 2 and bbq as you stated but it dont stop us from coming back, and for the record we had a win this past weekend and also won 3 games in Fairhaven MA a few years back at the 9 Man A when we had pitching so that knocks out your 8 year statement. I want to thank Greg for the kind words and to Terry for clearing the air, Jubb 21 I am not sure who you are but I'm sure we will meet at a tournament one day and hopefully put this to bed over a beer.
NYSoftball20
Addicted to Softballfans
Those code changes were put in for 2010 so I think you hit the nail on the head
I've played in a several 10 man nationals. Every year, it depends on the umpire's discretion on how they will enforce the pitching rule. It is part of the game. Just like every umpire has a different strike zone, they view the pitching rule differently based on their judgement. As a team, you just have to play through it. I wasn't there to see the finals, but I know that both teams had borderline 10 man slinging pitchers on their roster. They could have both opened it up, if it wasn't being called by the umpires and they could have both gone to their legit modified pitchers if it was called. In my opinion, complaing publicly in the paper that the pitching rule wasn't enforced is ridiculous. If you didn't play well, don't make excuses, just accept the loss and make another run at the title next season. It's part of the game.
What ya gonna do when the baby starts crying?
What ya gonna do when the baby starts crying?
ASA used to have a rule that required a pitcher to be pulled from a game if he had a certain number of illegal pitches. I thought it was something like 3 illegal pitches or something like that. That rule seemed to give the umpires the power to enforce the rule a bit, because if a pitcher got called a couple of times, the pitcher really had to tone it down to stay within the rule. Did they get rid of this rule or am I imagining that it ever existed?
Old dirty basta
Addicted to Softballfans
Used to be rule. Now just illegal pitch. I liked the old rule. Keeps slingers out of mOdifed game. Was at a state tourn in pa a while ago. We brought a 9 man and ten. A team had a mod pitcher that u could see back of hand from 1st base. But the umps let him sling. We used our nine man and he was called three times in a row done. A lot depends on umps, but really a Asa national tourn. No excuse. There is no borderline calling. You either are or are not. Should have went to drifton. Haha
Old dirty basta
Addicted to Softballfans
Exactly and that's why ten man game is littered with the sling crap. If I want to play fastpitch I play. If I want to play mod I play. Def it is let's stretch the rules and sling. What a joke. Where can I play modified pitchers to come and throw tourn like the 9'man teams pay for top fast guys. What fun that is a 2-1 game with 10 plus strike outs. Should just play slowpitch and rake then.
scoopmachine11
If u dont know,now u know
Exactly, just play slowpitch, less whining and better teams when you get to the national level. No crying about what pitcher Is pitching. This isn't major league baseball. Modified is dying because of this, and will be dead in 4 or 5 years.
Slowpitch come on you are a JOKE you can take any team that was out there this weekend and they would be very competitive you take a Slowpitch team to modified they are 2 and a Q
