USSSA A few questions on different plays.

[BLACK DEATH]

This is on backyard tourneys and league nights at our fields, which is not sanctioned but we play utrip style mainly here. I’ve been asked to help them ump as too much drama with people and umps. I’m not the best, but try to be and definitely be fair to both sides. Don’t slam me too hard on these questions, atleast I’m trying to learn to be better.

1st.... ball is popped up, ball is in foul territory, but the fielder is in fair territory. No matter if he catches or drops the ball, it’s where the ball is at that matters, not the fielder, correct? I thought I read this in this group before. I’ve never seen soo many people complain it’s where the fielder is at and not the ball.

2nd.... Batter on 1st, guy hits a shot to SS who try’s to turn two outs. He steps on two, then throws to 1st base and it hits the runner that was on 1st as he was jogging to 2nd. The defense kept saying interference, but he was in the baseline. They kept saying he has to move for defense to make a play. I told them he’s in the area he’s supposed to be when running to 2nd base.

3rd.... 1 out, a runner on 2nd and 3rd base. Batter hits a pop fly to left field and it is caught making it 2 outs. Runner on 2nd base was running towards 3rd and didn’t tag up. Runner on 3rd tagged up and made it home before the left fielder threw the ball to 2nd for the third out. I told them the run counted and the defense blew up saying they get to make the play and the run does not count.

4th... what’s the average seconds you count when they delay the game and the batters or defense is trying to run down the clock? Batter steps out the box between pitches? Offense to throw in a ball after the batter hits it foul? Batter to step into the box so a pitcher can pitch the ball? Defense to take the field or to get off the field, which I assume can take a minute if someone is walking from the outfield.

 

[NCASAUmp]

1. There are many nuances to what’s considered a foul ball, and many of them are subtle. I’ll say that if it’s first touched over foul territory and NOT caught, it’s a foul call, period. If it is caught, then the ball remains live, and runners can advance. However, I think USSSA has a stupid rule that if it’s caught in foul territory and the batter has no more strikes/fouls to give, the ball is dead.
2. Your interpretation is correct - the runner is where they’re supposed to be, and barring him doing something else, there’s no interference here. They’re following a myth.
3. You’re correct, this is a timing play. This is not a force play.
   
4. Each team has one minute between innings to warm up. Each batter has 10 seconds to get into the box after instructed by the umpire. But I don’t clock-watch unless I’ve got a team or pitcher or batter who’s clearly doing something to unduly manipulate the rules. In 28 years, I’ve called strikes on a batter maybe… 3 times for taking too long to get to the plate. I’ve called a ball on a pitcher once for taking too long between pitches (and I told her catcher twice to speed it up, and this was in a state semifinal game). It’s a matter of game management and keeping things moving.

For a “backyard tourney” or “league game,” it sure sounds to me like they’re taking this WAY too seriously. I can think of a bunch of reasons why you’re having trouble finding umpires willing to call the games, and they’re all found in the dugouts.

 

[EAJuggalo]

I rarely get to say this, NC is wrong.

1. As of 2020, all caught fly balls are live in USSSA. From 2013-2019 NC was correct, the strikeout happened before the catch. That was changed to bring the rest of USSSA in line with Conference USSSA which never had that rule.

2. I agree with you, 70% of the umpires I've asked about it at Conference USSSA events and World Championships agree that the runner is where they should be and without an act of interference there is no call. However, I was told the National Director of Officials made a ruling at Military Worlds and upheld a protest saying that it was the runners responsibility to not be in the way of the throw. I will be asking him and/or the National UIC the next time I see them, either in two weeks or next month. As of right now the ruling I have from the highest authority is from the previous Director of Officials who agreed that it is the fielders responsibility to throw around the runner unless the runner commits an act of interference either through action or inaction. Basically they are protected if they are going where they are supposed to be going.

3. Timing play, not a force. Good call, I'm still surprised at how many people get this one wrong.

4. A batter gets 10 seconds from the time you call for them to be ready or it's a strike. As soon as the batter steps out the clock starts, especially if it looks like they're trying to stall. I would do the same thing, I'd call foul, ask for a ball and start counting. If I get to ten before there is a ball and the batter is ready it's a strike. Defense has one minute, after that one minute it is within the rules to call a ball every five seconds until they are ready. I'm not watching the clock if people are actually trying to get out there, if they're lollygagging though, I call for the batter loudly, stand behind the plate with my hand up, if the fielder is still walking slowly out their position (usually it's Left Field) then I start counting, I get to five I got ball one, I get to five again I got ball two. If I really think they are just trying to run the clock out I remind them the penalties under Rule 4.9.B and C.

Sec. 9. A FORFEITED GAME shall be declared by the umpire in favor of the team not at fault in the following cases: The score will be 7-0 in favor of the team not at fault.
B. If after a game has begun, a team refuses to play or resume play as directed by the umpire.
C. If a team uses tactics noticeably designed to delay or hasten the playing of a game.

 

[ilyk2win]

I rarely get to say this, NC is wrong.

2. I agree with you, 70% of the umpires I've asked about it at Conference USSSA events and World Championships agree that the runner is where they should be and without an act of interference there is no call. However, I was told the National Director of Officials made a ruling at Military Worlds and upheld a protest saying that it was the runners responsibility to not be in the way of the throw. I will be asking him and/or the National UIC the next time I see them, either in two weeks or next month. As of right now the ruling I have from the highest authority is from the previous Director of Officials who agreed that it is the fielders responsibility to throw around the runner unless the runner commits an act of interference either through action or inaction. Basically they are protected if they are going where they are supposed to be going.

Still makes me And he still hasn't shown me (he offered to by the end of that game) "in the rule book" where it supports his decision of slide or veer or whatever he was basing it on that isn't written in there

P.S. runner was in a "ducked down" position trying to get out of the way but only a step or 2 from the bag (in the base line)

 

[EAJuggalo]

Still makes me And he still hasn't shown me (he offered to by the end of that game) "in the rule book" where it supports his decision of slide or veer or whatever he was basing it on that isn't written in there

P.S. runner was in a "ducked down" position trying to get out of the way but only a step or 2 from the bag (in the base line)

He can't show you in the book because it's not in the book. Unless he changes the book which he has the capability to do. I haven't seen Dave since then, he wasn't in Dallas when I was there, I don't think he's going to be at the Dudley next week, but I will see him and Slim next month in Cincy. I will try to get it direct from one of the two.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I rarely get to say this, NC is wrong.

1. As of 2020, all caught fly balls are live in USSSA. From 2013-2019 NC was correct, the strikeout happened before the catch. That was changed to bring the rest of USSSA in line with Conference USSSA which never had that rule.

2. I agree with you, 70% of the umpires I've asked about it at Conference USSSA events and World Championships agree that the runner is where they should be and without an act of interference there is no call. However, I was told the National Director of Officials made a ruling at Military Worlds and upheld a protest saying that it was the runners responsibility to not be in the way of the throw. I will be asking him and/or the National UIC the next time I see them, either in two weeks or next month. As of right now the ruling I have from the highest authority is from the previous Director of Officials who agreed that it is the fielders responsibility to throw around the runner unless the runner commits an act of interference either through action or inaction. Basically they are protected if they are going where they are supposed to be going.

3. Timing play, not a force. Good call, I'm still surprised at how many people get this one wrong.

4. A batter gets 10 seconds from the time you call for them to be ready or it's a strike. As soon as the batter steps out the clock starts, especially if it looks like they're trying to stall. I would do the same thing, I'd call foul, ask for a ball and start counting. If I get to ten before there is a ball and the batter is ready it's a strike. Defense has one minute, after that one minute it is within the rules to call a ball every five seconds until they are ready. I'm not watching the clock if people are actually trying to get out there, if they're lollygagging though, I call for the batter loudly, stand behind the plate with my hand up, if the fielder is still walking slowly out their position (usually it's Left Field) then I start counting, I get to five I got ball one, I get to five again I got ball two. If I really think they are just trying to run the clock out I remind them the penalties under Rule 4.9.B and C.

They finally changed it? Thank god! That was the silliest rule I’d heard of. Thanks for the clarification!