A2000 or Horween Heart of the Hide

FSTPCH Coach

New Member
For a high school softball - third baseman/shortstop, what glove would you guys recommend? A custom Wilson A2000 or a Custom Horween Heart of the Hide? I want to know what glove plays better, looks better, and lasts longer (with proper care of course).

Also based on the age (14 now hopefully last until Senior year) and position (third/short) what size should I be looking at? I was thinking 12" but not totally sure!
 

mossman

That's how we dooze it!
If you're sure you're staying at 3b/ss, then 12" should be fine. I personally love all my Rawlings. My Son uses Wilson and I just don't like the feel. Plus the Wilson is considerably heavier. If you do go with Wilson, I'd stick with black or brown. My sons colored glove is fading.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
Hate to say it but there's no real right or wrong answer. A lot depends on your DD, her size, her hand size, her skill level, how comfortable will she be with a new glove that's brick hard and super stiff? My DD uses a custom 12" Vinci with a H-web, she loves it. I wish I had gotten her into a Pro1000 before she got the Vinci but there's no going back now, according to her it will only be a Vinci from now on. Rous did a complete re-lace and replaced the thumb and picky stays, and I've re-laced the fingers, web, and web spiral probably 3 or 4 times. It's beat to death with a new replacement waiting.

There's lots of great glove models to choose from for her application, LOTS! I'm around fastpitch players usually 6 days a week, from college committed travel players to HS girls who make me scratch my head! On her HS team, all but two gloves on that team make me sick! They're terrible, to the point of being scary and dangerous. On her travel team, I can think of (4) Vinci's, (2) A2000's, (1) Heart of the Hide, (1) All-Star, and (1) Mizuno Global Elite. That's all I can think of off hand. I help the girls (actually their parents) who want help, but honestly most don't care, they'll go to DSG, grab a 12.5" glove with velcro and go.

What size is your DD using right now? I know you specifically said a custom A2000 or custom HOH, the amount of money is definitely up to you, the Pro207 that Chad just got in would be awesome for her at SS or 3B, I just don't know how her hand will work with the hand stall size of that glove? I don't like velcro but that's me, your DD may actually need it? And just be ready for a LONG break in period!

There's a lot of guys here who don't like Vinci, and some here who do. I like Vinci, I just like Rawlings better! Having said that, Vinci makes dang awesome fastpitch gloves for females. Very snug, very tight hand stalls in their baseball gloves. You may just have to adjust the wrist lap opening and that's it, their dual welted gloves have very snug finger stalls.

Only you and your DD can decide what size you actually need......and I know you said A2000 & HOH but here's a couple of models:

Rawlings:
Pro1000HC 12"
Pronp6-6JB Kyle Seager 12"
I would say a RV23, but unless your DD has huge hands, the hand stall will probably be way too big!
Pro316SB-2B, 12" fastpitch glove with I-web, Dual Core leather so probably not!
***lots of options on the Rawlings custom builder with just the Pro200 model alone.....Pro206 or Pro207 with multiple web choices.

Wilson:
DW5 12"
not sure, but I think they make these in A2000 & A2K.
you could go with a custom tan DW5 or 1781, the hand stall's on the 1781 are pretty big.

Mizuno Global Elite:
GGE10 12" basket web in black.
GGE11 12" basket web in tan.
both are discontinued but can be had on ebay.

Vinci:
BV1929-L 12.5" basket web.
this glove has a massive following with fastpitch girls. It actually plays between 12" & 12.25" and you can get a Vinci rep to order you a custom with an H-web. Or have a rep make you a custom in any size to your specs.

RV1961-L 12.75" H-web that barely measures 12.5"
this is a great fastpitch utility glove but may be too big for what you're looking for, we have 3 of these on our TB team.

All-Star Vela 3-finger series:
these are true fastpitch gloves with velcro, the men's System Seven series have the better Maruhashi leather.

Nokona:
they have several 12" baseball gloves, Legend, Generation, and Steerhide Pro series.


Glovesmith:
you could always go the custom made in the USA route, that one will definitely last her a very long while! Or save a few bucks and order a custom elite, but if I were ordering, I'd spend the extra $40.

Sorry so long, I'm sure I've missed tons of other glove options.
 

FSTPCH Coach

New Member
Hate to say it but there's no real right or wrong answer. A lot depends on your DD, her size, her hand size, her skill level, how comfortable will she be with a new glove that's brick hard and super stiff? My DD uses a custom 12" Vinci with a H-web, she loves it. I wish I had gotten her into a Pro1000 before she got the Vinci but there's no going back now, according to her it will only be a Vinci from now on. Rous did a complete re-lace and replaced the thumb and picky stays, and I've re-laced the fingers, web, and web spiral probably 3 or 4 times. It's beat to death with a new replacement waiting.

There's lots of great glove models to choose from for her application, LOTS! I'm around fastpitch players usually 6 days a week, from college committed travel players to HS girls who make me scratch my head! On her HS team, all but two gloves on that team make me sick! They're terrible, to the point of being scary and dangerous. On her travel team, I can think of (4) Vinci's, (2) A2000's, (1) Heart of the Hide, (1) All-Star, and (1) Mizuno Global Elite. That's all I can think of off hand. I help the girls (actually their parents) who want help, but honestly most don't care, they'll go to DSG, grab a 12.5" glove with velcro and go.

What size is your DD using right now? I know you specifically said a custom A2000 or custom HOH, the amount of money is definitely up to you, the Pro207 that Chad just got in would be awesome for her at SS or 3B, I just don't know how her hand will work with the hand stall size of that glove? I don't like velcro but that's me, your DD may actually need it? And just be ready for a LONG break in period!

There's a lot of guys here who don't like Vinci, and some here who do. I like Vinci, I just like Rawlings better! Having said that, Vinci makes dang awesome fastpitch gloves for females. Very snug, very tight hand stalls in their baseball gloves. You may just have to adjust the wrist lap opening and that's it, their dual welted gloves have very snug finger stalls.

Only you and your DD can decide what size you actually need......and I know you said A2000 & HOH but here's a couple of models:

Rawlings:
Pro1000HC 12"
Pronp6-6JB Kyle Seager 12"
I would say a RV23, but unless your DD has huge hands, the hand stall will probably be way too big!
Pro316SB-2B, 12" fastpitch glove with I-web, Dual Core leather so probably not!
***lots of options on the Rawlings custom builder with just the Pro200 model alone.....Pro206 or Pro207 with multiple web choices.

Wilson:
DW5 12"
not sure, but I think they make these in A2000 & A2K.
you could go with a custom tan DW5 or 1781, the hand stall's on the 1781 are pretty big.

Mizuno Global Elite:
GGE10 12" basket web in black.
GGE11 12" basket web in tan.
both are discontinued but can be had on ebay.

Vinci:
BV1929-L 12.5" basket web.
this glove has a massive following with fastpitch girls. It actually plays between 12" & 12.25" and you can get a Vinci rep to order you a custom with an H-web. Or have a rep make you a custom in any size to your specs.

RV1961-L 12.75" H-web that barely measures 12.5"
this is a great fastpitch utility glove but may be too big for what you're looking for, we have 3 of these on our TB team.

All-Star Vela 3-finger series:
these are true fastpitch gloves with velcro, the men's System Seven series have the better Maruhashi leather.

Nokona:
they have several 12" baseball gloves, Legend, Generation, and Steerhide Pro series.


Glovesmith:
you could always go the custom made in the USA route, that one will definitely last her a very long while! Or save a few bucks and order a custom elite, but if I were ordering, I'd spend the extra $40.

Sorry so long, I'm sure I've missed tons of other glove options.
Wow thank you so much for the response and all of the information. This was my first post so seeing a response as good as this has made me appreciate this whole website a lot more.
 

David the Gnome

The Veteran
I have owned 3 Horween gloves and I have sold them all. There's no doubt in my mind that leather would last forever but it is a real commitment to break one of those things in. I played an entire season at second base with one and afterwards it still felt almost as stiff as it was when it was new. I just never got it to a point where I felt comfortable with it, the only reason I put up with it for a whole season was because I really wanted to like that glove.

In the end, I decided Horween leather just isn't for me. I much prefer the regular Japanese tan (or Wilson's excellent orange tan). My favorite leather currently is Mizuno's black Deguchi kip followed by the old Deguchi tan (not the current peanut colored model).
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
Hey coach, you never did say what kind of glove your DD is using now. I know I threw out a lot of gloves in my above post but I'm going to agree with David about horween leather. I would stick with Japanese tanned leather, whether it be Rawlings, Wilson, Glovesmith, or whoever. Still really firm leather that will need to be broken it, holds its shape forever with proper care. New horween is just tough for a female, now a well broken in horween glove in great shape, that's another story.......

I do think my new Pro1000 would make an excellent SS or 2B glove for fastpitch, now some may disagree with me but I (personally) think it's too small for 3B. No offense guys, but a lot of you have no idea what a crazy fast game this is! Especially with 60' bases and at the 16U/18U showcase level. I get to see some amazingly talented girls on the left side of the infield, and with that base distance and some girls running 2.6, 2.7, and 2.8 second times home to 1B, there can be no bobble, zero room for error. EVERYTHING must be caught clean!

For 3B, I definitely recommend a H-web, it's strong and it'll be deeper than a I-web. For SS, either of those two will be fine as long as you don't go bigger than 12".

In your OP, you mentioned a custom Wilson & a custom Rawlings so it sounds like you're not scared to spend some money......you said she's 14, she should get some years out of these although I never look at a glove purchase to see how many years we can get out of it.

From the Rawlings custom builder here from Chad:
Pro206 12" H-web in J-tan.
Pro207 12.25" H-web in J-tan.
I've heard the 200 series has a smaller hand stall than my my Pro1000, don't know if that's true?

Glovesmith:
12" custom USA in wheat duratan with a H-web. According to Rous who may chime in here, Bart at GS will adjust the hand stall size for your DD. Rous is definitely the GS guy here. Plus this will be a very unique glove that I'd bet no one else on her team will have one!

Vinci:
The Vinci BV1929-L that I mentioned earlier, this glove will or should be just over half what the GS will be if you go through a Vinci rep. It's Kip leather and it's a great glove! As I said, at Discussfastpitch.com that glove model has a very loyal fan base! Great size for 3B. And if she wants a little larger glove, the RV1961-L is a great fastpitch glove also.
 

Dugout5

Starting Player
I am also a huge Rawlings fan but......My vinci kip glove (BMB-OB) came very stiff and has broken into some of the nicest buttery leather I've felt. It's a joy to put it on! Its less than 1 year old and didn't not take too long to break in.

I'm not familiar with the BV1929-L but, for a 14yo female the Vinci would be my pick. They also have plenty of custom options, colors, embroidery etc.
 

Felks32

Addicted to Softballfans
I feel like a broken record lately, but if you are considering 12.25" h-webs, check out the Rawlings Pro Preferred Kris Bryant model. PRO200-6K.

Handstall is nice and tight. Give one a try.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
I am also a huge Rawlings fan but......My vinci kip glove (BMB-OB) came very stiff and has broken into some of the nicest buttery leather I've felt. It's a joy to put it on! Its less than 1 year old and didn't not take too long to break in.

I'm not familiar with the BV1929-L but, for a 14yo female the Vinci would be my pick. They also have plenty of custom options, colors, embroidery etc.

Yep, that's why I keep adding Vinci to the list and the 1929 is a very proven baseball glove for fastpitch. My DD's first Vinci custom is three years old, it's tan Kip and when new I would easily compare it to a HOH, her new identical replacement.......not so much!! With their snug hand stalls, they just make great FP gloves. The OP should still order a Glovesmith!
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
I feel like a broken record lately, but if you are considering 12.25" h-webs, check out the Rawlings Pro Preferred Kris Bryant model. PRO200-6K.

Handstall is nice and tight. Give one a try.
Felks, we have no idea of her hand size......would you say the Bryant is snug enough for the "average" 14 year old female hand? Probably impossible to answer sight unseen.
 

Felks32

Addicted to Softballfans
Felks, we have no idea of her hand size......would you say the Bryant is snug enough for the "average" 14 year old female hand? Probably impossible to answer sight unseen.

Above it was suggested that either the 207 SBF Horween, or a Custom 206 or 207 is a potential option, that's what a Bryant is (a 207), but you're right...I should have clarified...I meant that if you have a chance to check one out at retail, give one a try, it might ease some concern about ordering a custom one. :) Although I have pretty small hands and the Bryant is nice and tight, LOL.

 

huntaholic21

Addicted to Softballfans
Felks, we have no idea of her hand size......would you say the Bryant is snug enough for the "average" 14 year old female hand? Probably impossible to answer sight unseen.

Kind of interesting but I had to go to the tighter holes on the Bryant. I wear an xl batting glove. I don't really think it's because of the size as much as the slipperyness of the pittards liner.
 

Felks32

Addicted to Softballfans
Kind of interesting but I had to go to the tighter holes on the Bryant. I wear an xl batting glove. I don't really think it's because of the size as much as the slipperyness of the pittards liner.

Interesting...for comparison's sake, my Bryant at the standard holes is a much tighter fit than my custom 504 at the standard holes. When I had my 504 relaced, I considered having it set at the tighter setting.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
^^^^^Man Felks, that's beautiful. That size is where my Pro1000 needs to be, it's got me a little worried. There's a dad and his beautiful 15 yo DD who plays TB with my DD, she (and her crazy dad) is already beating me up on my new 1000! If I sell it that'll make the second time I've done that with a DM Pro1000, there won't be a third time!
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
Kind of interesting but I had to go to the tighter holes on the Bryant. I wear an xl batting glove. I don't really think it's because of the size as much as the slipperyness of the pittards liner.

Yeah for some reason the pics of the Bryant always looked like it's a pretty big glove to me, may be a little too much for a 14 yo female? But she might have huge hands? When I think about a 12.25" glove (my RV23) there's no way my 15 yo DD could ever use it! But I'm sure the RV has a bigger hand stall than the Bryant.
 

huntaholic21

Addicted to Softballfans
Yeah for some reason the pics of the Bryant always looked like it's a pretty big glove to me, may be a little too much for a 14 yo female? But she might have huge hands? When I think about a 12.25" glove (my RV23) there's no way my 15 yo DD could ever use it! But I'm sure the RV has a bigger hand stall than the Bryant.

The handstall isn't any bigger than your hc.
 

FSTPCH Coach

New Member
Hey coach, you never did say what kind of glove your DD is using now. I know I threw out a lot of gloves in my above post but I'm going to agree with David about horween leather. I would stick with Japanese tanned leather, whether it be Rawlings, Wilson, Glovesmith, or whoever. Still really firm leather that will need to be broken it, holds its shape forever with proper care. New horween is just tough for a female, now a well broken in horween glove in great shape, that's another story.......

I do think my new Pro1000 would make an excellent SS or 2B glove for fastpitch, now some may disagree with me but I (personally) think it's too small for 3B. No offense guys, but a lot of you have no idea what a crazy fast game this is! Especially with 60' bases and at the 16U/18U showcase level. I get to see some amazingly talented girls on the left side of the infield, and with that base distance and some girls running 2.6, 2.7, and 2.8 second times home to 1B, there can be no bobble, zero room for error. EVERYTHING must be caught clean!

For 3B, I definitely recommend a H-web, it's strong and it'll be deeper than a I-web. For SS, either of those two will be fine as long as you don't go bigger than 12".

In your OP, you mentioned a custom Wilson & a custom Rawlings so it sounds like you're not scared to spend some money......you said she's 14, she should get some years out of these although I never look at a glove purchase to see how many years we can get out of it.

From the Rawlings custom builder here from Chad:
Pro206 12" H-web in J-tan.
Pro207 12.25" H-web in J-tan.
I've heard the 200 series has a smaller hand stall than my my Pro1000, don't know if that's true?

Glovesmith:
12" custom USA in wheat duratan with a H-web. According to Rous who may chime in here, Bart at GS will adjust the hand stall size for your DD. Rous is definitely the GS guy here. Plus this will be a very unique glove that I'd bet no one else on her team will have one!

Vinci:
The Vinci BV1929-L that I mentioned earlier, this glove will or should be just over half what the GS will be if you go through a Vinci rep. It's Kip leather and it's a great glove! As I said, at Discussfastpitch.com that glove model has a very loyal fan base! Great size for 3B. And if she wants a little larger glove, the RV1961-L is a great fastpitch glove also.
Right now she's using an 11.75 Mizuno MVP Series that was team issued. It's an I Web as she played second and short. She never really did like the leather and complained it was worn and floppy inside. So for her graduation, I'm giing to get her something that she will really like and appreciate (take care of). Also, she's converting to third base to play Varsity so we will probably go with the 12". Just trying to decide on which one!
 

Rous

Addicted to Softballfans
I have come to believe that hand stall size and fit are the most important things to look for. Anyone plays with more confidence with a glove that fits like... a glove. As much as I love glovesmith, their 11.75" glove (based on the old USA Pro1000) has a relatively wide hand stall. Of course, we now know the newer (Philippines made) Pro1000s are really just 12" Pro200s. My son has one of those and it's hand stall is narrower. The Pro200 has a fairly deep pocket for an infield glove, so it is not a bad choice. I have worked on a lot of Vincies and I love some of them and I think some are meh. If it were me, I'd seriously consider either a custom Pro207 with a vertical hinge web (widest/deepest one they make) or a Nokona L-V1200. I am not a fan of Velcro, but I love this family of patterns and the way the Velcro wrist strap works is great.

But I have to say the Rawlings custom 120SB, 120FS, 125SB, and 125FS look great. FS means "finger shift" so they are designed for TIP grip (but I don't know what they do to accommodate that). I love the twin strap closure, it also gets you a really nice fit, and without Velcro.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
Coach, just dug up a few pics of Anna's glove when is was new, it definitely doesn't look like this anymore! It's a 12" custom with tan kip leather and I can tell you, the tan kip is a heck of a lot more stiff than Vinci's black kip. We have 3 black RV1961-L's on her TB team and this glove was easily twice as hard and stiff.

I sent this glove to Rous a while back when we were on vacation for a re-lace and to replace the stays, he said it looked to him like a little larger version of a Pro1000 pattern. It's definitely larger than my new Pro1000. It's been a great glove! Pretty sure I've never posted these here before. She pitches, and plays SS and it's worked perfectly for her.101.jpg 108.jpg 102.jpg
 

Dugout5

Starting Player
Coach, just dug up a few pics of Anna's glove when is was new, it definitely doesn't look like this anymore! It's a 12" custom with tan kip leather and I can tell you, the tan kip is a heck of a lot more stiff than Vinci's black kip. We have 3 black RV1961-L's on her TB team and this glove was easily twice as hard and stiff.

I sent this glove to Rous a while back when we were on vacation for a re-lace and to replace the stays, he said it looked to him like a little larger version of a Pro1000 pattern. It's definitely larger than my new Pro1000. It's been a great glove! Pretty sure I've never posted these here before. She pitches, and plays SS and it's worked perfectly for her.View attachment 34463 View attachment 34464 View attachment 34465

That is one purty glove.
 

Wally Gator

Starting Player
Living the lie brother, in my travel ball circles I'm the glove guy, around here I'm a puppy! Lots of great knowledge on this board!
Gotta start somewhere. I tip my hat to anyone that pursues knowledge. I cringed the other day when the 14u coach that my son practices with said, "Yep, Pro Preferred is what the Pro's use." He's also the local varsity coach.
 

ANNASDAD

The Veteran
Gotta start somewhere. I tip my hat to anyone that pursues knowledge. I cringed the other day when the 14u coach that my son practices with said, "Yep, Pro Preferred is what the Pro's use." He's also the local varsity coach.
Come on Wally, it says Pro right there on the glove........oh, I've been around "some" coaches!
 

dford42

Addicted to Softballfans
why not a custom Wilson FP? The FP12 with Dual Post web (H-web) is what I would be picking if I was getting a new glove for my DD
 
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