ASA Banning composite bats?

[ly_ben]

New to the site so hopefully im posting this in the right place.. Out here in Vacaville Ca, there is a lot of talk on composite bats being banned?? Any truth to this? Thxs

 

[NCASAUmp]

Out of curiosity, are you asking about ASA as a whole, or the ASA being played in your area?

As far as I'm aware, ASA has no intentions of banning composites.

 

[BigBL87]

New to the site so hopefully im posting this in the right place.. Out here in Vacaville Ca, there is a lot of talk on composite bats being banned?? Any truth to this? Thxs

Probably just your local league(s), if it is in fact true.

I know a certain manufacturer that posts here has mentioned that at least Pre-ABI composites may be targeted at some point in the future, but I doubt there is anything specific from anyone in ASA at this point.

 

[KannonsDad]

Sounds like a local rule, which override the sanction

 

[spos21ram]

No association is banning composites. As others have said, what you heard is most likely your local rule.

 

[Gamble]

I really wish you had to answer a short questionnaire before your post was submitted.

Something like:

"Is your post a question?"
[ ] Yes
[ ] No

"Have you actually asked yourself this question?"
[ ] Yes
[ ] No

"Did you really ask yourself?"
[ ] Yes
[ ] No

"Since you claim you did ask yourself, did the subject of the question start to seem more illogical the more you thought about it?"
[ ] Yes
[ ] No

It would eliminate so many questions like this.


With all the players screaming bloody murder about USSSA revamping their bat rules, do you really think ASA is going to go to the lengths of banning all composites? Really? Does that sound even slightly logical to you?

 

[irishmafia]

I really wish you had to answer a short questionnaire before your post was submitted.

Something like:


It would eliminate so many questions like this.


With all the players screaming bloody murder about USSSA revamping their bat rules, do you really think ASA is going to go to the lengths of banning all composites? Really? Does that sound even slightly logical to you?

And let's not forget using the search function.

 

[irishmafia]

ASA, or any other org., would be foolish to ban a piece of equipment without science behind it. There is a reason ASA originally banned bats with titanium, but not the double wall bats in general. There was scientific proof that titanium in it's own right could cause acceleration and BES at a higher rate. There was no such evidence the DW construction did so.

Are you all old enough to remember when there was a call to dump all DW bats? Didn't happen, did it?

Look how foolish NCAA & LL baseball looked with their knee-jerk ban on composites? The softball world just sat back and laughed because ASA/NCAA/NFHS softball were all over it and had the answers that baseball was seeking more than a decade before. That is why composites are still being used in softball, including LL.

States and cities started banning aluminum and composites and in every case of which I am aware, softball stepped in, showed the science behind the rules and, poof, softball was exempted from the ridiculous wood-only rules.

Some of these league and P&R folks need to stop politicking and get their head out of their collective asses and just play the game. Meanwhile, those who think the world will come to an end if they, or rather their bat, cannot hit the ball 300' without cheating, need to be taken out of the game, period.

 

[BigBL87]

ASA, or any other org., would be foolish to ban a piece of equipment without science behind it. There is a reason ASA originally banned bats with titanium, but not the double wall bats in general. There was scientific proof that titanium in it's own right could cause acceleration and BES at a higher rate. There was no such evidence the DW construction did so.

By the same token, don't the "best" Pre-ABI composites (when broken in) exceed the exit speeds of the titaniums? Thought I saw that there was a study, think it was one of the Kettering ones. Anyway, just a thought. I couldn't care less whether composites were to get banned or not.

Meanwhile, those who think the world will come to an end if they, or rather their bat, cannot hit the ball 300' without cheating, need to be taken out of the game, period.

Agreed.

 

[Gamble]

By the same token, don't the "best" Pre-ABI composites (when broken in) exceed the exit speeds of the titaniums? Thought I saw that there was a study, think it was one of the Kettering ones. Anyway, just a thought. I couldn't care less whether composites were to get banned or not.

Nope. Kettering puts the Ti bats almost 10mph above the ASA limits, and like 6mph above even the best broken in ASA composites. They're a shade below the Ultra level.

 

[BigBL87]

Nope. Kettering puts the Ti bats almost 10mph above the ASA limits, and like 6mph above even the best broken in ASA composites. They're a shade below the Ultra level.

Thanks, interesting. Definitely why I phrased it as a question.

 

[ly_ben]

Thanks for the input! Found out that it is a city thing and they say come 2013 it will be all aluminum out here.. Will see.. And again, im new to the site so thanks again to those who helped and to those "tuff guys" that are not trying to be helpful, stay tuff big guys..

 

[EsqUmp]

Thanks for the input! Found out that it is a city thing and they say come 2013 it will be all aluminum out here.. Will see.. And again, im new to the site so thanks again to those who helped and to those "tuff guys" that are not trying to be helpful, stay tuff big guys..

There are a number of people on this forum who take great pride in bashing any new person who posts. It's probably just their way of keeping the forum limited to those that agree with them so that they can inflate their egos even more. This is now the third or fourth time I've written something like this on a forum in the past week alone.

Maybe some of these egomaniacs should chill out and stop bashing new members. After all, the purpose of the forum on SOFTBALLFANS.com is to encourage communication about the sport. It supposed to be a place where people can go to get answers, not grief.

Grow up people.

 

[spos21ram]

There are a number of people on this forum who take great pride in bashing any new person who posts. It's probably just their way of keeping the forum limited to those that agree with them so that they can inflate their egos even more. This is now the third or fourth time I've written something like this on a forum in the past week alone.

Maybe some of these egomaniacs should chill out and stop bashing new members. After all, the purpose of the forum on SOFTBALLFANS.com is to encourage communication about the sport. It supposed to be a place where people can go to get answers, not grief.

Grow up people.

I wasn't one of them bashing him, but it can get annoying seeing questions that could be answered by doing a few minutes of searching. I don't mind it, but some do.

 

[SouthernOhioNSA]

I think Ray DeMarini had a lot to do with this. I was still playing and umping while running the occasional tournament when DeMarini Double-Walls were not approved bats. I had always heard he sued all of the sanctioning bodies at the time who would not approve his bat to show scientific proof why his product was not allowed. I seem to remember this is where the bat performance factor (BPF) came from. It established back then that 1.2 was the allowable trampoline effect.

Now is anyone old enough to remember some of the bats that exceeded it? I remember seeing a TPS Outlaw that was supposed to be 1.3 BPF and the original DeMarini Double Wall was still a better bat. Also some of the Worth player models that were cryogenics were supposed to be 1.3. Still not as hot as DeMarini's bat at the time.

Anyone remember the TPS Springsteel's? These were triple-wall bats that came out after the DeMarini was approved. Mine made a good club to carry in my car while delivering pizzas during college back in the day. I just always hoped that if I did get robbed it wasn't by a softball player. They would have knew that bat wouldn't hurt much when it hit something.

Are you all old enough to remember when there was a call to dump all DW bats? Didn't happen, did it?

 

[Chubby_43]

I think Ray DeMarini had a lot to do with this. I was still playing and umping while running the occasional tournament when DeMarini Double-Walls were not approved bats. I had always heard he sued all of the sanctioning bodies at the time who would not approve his bat to show scientific proof why his product was not allowed. I seem to remember this is where the bat performance factor (BPF) came from. It established back then that 1.2 was the allowable trampoline effect.

Now is anyone old enough to remember some of the bats that exceeded it? I remember seeing a TPS Outlaw that was supposed to be 1.3 BPF and the original DeMarini Double Wall was still a better bat. Also some of the Worth player models that were cryogenics were supposed to be 1.3. Still not as hot as DeMarini's bat at the time.

Anyone remember the TPS Springsteel's? These were triple-wall bats that came out after the DeMarini was approved. Mine made a good club to carry in my car while delivering pizzas during college back in the day. I just always hoped that if I did get robbed it wasn't by a softball player. They would have knew that bat wouldn't hurt much when it hit something.

Awesome...POST!!! Many thanks

 

[ly_ben]

Thanks esqump, and to spos21ram i understand what you are saying but this was a real question that i did not know the answer to and this was my way of searching. Hopping onto google ,yahoo or the asa web site and typing in my question did not get me any answers so i figured that i could join a softball form and ask a softball question and get some help. Well got my answer and thanks again to thoses few..

 

[EsqUmp]

I think Ray DeMarini had a lot to do with this. I was still playing and umping while running the occasional tournament when DeMarini Double-Walls were not approved bats. I had always heard he sued all of the sanctioning bodies at the time who would not approve his bat to show scientific proof why his product was not allowed. I seem to remember this is where the bat performance factor (BPF) came from. It established back then that 1.2 was the allowable trampoline effect.

I don't know whether DeMarini actually threatened to sue, but I highly doubt it. What was the cause of action? The sanctioning bodies have no duty to accept any bat. That just sounds ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as when DeMarini tried to sue for patent infringement when other manufacturers began making double-walled bats. That lawsuit was immediately tossed.

 

[Fin09]

Demarini had copyrighted the name "Doublewall", so no one else could refer to their bat with the same word. It got to be like Kleenex, qtips, band aids, vaseline, and other specific product brands that described every similar product.

ASA has not banned a material since they devised their first test, and instead banned bats that exceeded their testing limits. Titanium bats were banned before there were tests that measured their performance. I don't see this practice changing. I would not be surprised if they mandate that all bats be made "tamper-proof" if that proves to be reasonable on the manufacturers' part.

 

[SouthernOhioNSA]

Info on the patent suit that DeMarini lost: http://www.asme.org/kb/news---artic...eers/the-national-pastime-of-patent-attorneys

The last document I had seen was on the 2 softball players (who also were scientists) web site. They had interviewed Ray DeMarini during his hey day and he mentioned that the associations had banned his earliest versions of the double wall bats due to the fact that they thought they were titanium alloy. When DeMarini proved they were not, they were allowed to be used.

I can recall one of our players pulling out the original gold deMarini double-wall and flat out launching a couple of balls into orbit. Once the catcher made the plate ump aware before his next time up, we got it in the bag immediately since it was banned at the time (early 1996)

I don't know whether DeMarini actually threatened to sue, but I highly doubt it. What was the cause of action? The sanctioning bodies have no duty to accept any bat. That just sounds ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as when DeMarini tried to sue for patent infringement when other manufacturers began making double-walled bats. That lawsuit was immediately tossed.